tar6569 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Hi all, I've started to take my 95 GT engine apart. It started as a new catalytic converter to replace a completely clogged original. Then the car stalling once it was back together. During the disassembly to take the upper intake off, I noticed oil sitting down by the lower intake on the pass side. So I stopped what I was doing on the disassembly to investigate more. I ended up finding a busted o-ring on top of the drivers side of the block. Surprisingly it was loose and just sitting there. I'm going to get at least the upper manifold off this weekend and hopefully find the source of the stalling. I knew the engine was leaking oil so this solves part of the problem. My car still has under 100K miles. Thanks! Edited August 2, 2013 by tar6569 took out confusing info in my original post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The only o-ring on the drivers side is the oil pump drive seal. The rest are for coolant tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the reply. That must be it then. I guess it finally gave out. I'll start looking into getting it fixed this weekend. Follow up question. Here is a pic of the o-ring that I found. Could this actually be the oil drive o-ring since I thought that o-ring was inside the hole where the drive goes so there would be no way for it to get out? If it's not, then either the oil is still coming from that location or maybe some place else. Edited August 2, 2013 by tar6569 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The O-ring in my photo will not pop up out of the oil pump drive. There is a similar size O-ring under the upper intake manifold that seals a coolant passage, but again there's no way for it to work free and fall out. First Guess: That O-ring you found is from prior service work, fell out of place a long time ago, and has been "riding along" for thousands of miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Ok, yeah that could be since I don't have a coolant leak. The low coolant light is on a lot but I know there is plenty of coolant in the engine. I picked up a new sensor for that. Got the old one off yesterday and there was a bunch of crud in it. I really don't want to take the rear head off to fully replace the oil drive o-ring but there is a decent amount of oil on top of the engine and the underside of the front of the car is full of spray from oil run off. I'm wondering how much oil could possibly come (be forced) out of the hole if the o-ring is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBadCutt Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 The only real thing that is prone to puking oil on that side is the oil pump drive. You can get them at part stores or if you bought. LIM kit from fel pro it will be in there. OR and I do this also and was recommended by my friends father who has been a GM mechanic for over 30 yrs, get some ultra black permatex and coat the hell out of it while its out (be careful they are a pain I the ass to get out sometimes) and shove it back in there. I use permatex on all bolts on the LIM. Just incase, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Here are pics of the pass side of the lower intake where the oil is collecting and also a shot of the oil pump drive. You can see how oily it is down there. A full intake gasket set will be in this afternoon. We may try crazy K's method of notching for replacing the actual o-ring. Hopefully once the lower intake is off, we'll get an idea of where all this oil is coming from (and find a vacuum leak that could explain why it was stalling). It leaks enough that I have to add some oil every 2 weeks or so and you can see where it's coming down the back and onto the subframe. All this as I approach the one year anniversary of buying the car. LOL Besides these engine issues, the car has been great and is still pretty much rock solid on the body and underside. I'll be sure to take pictures of anything I find as the work comes along and post them here. Warren Edited August 2, 2013 by tar6569 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 <-----I support Crazy K's method. He also took some good pics, you can read about it and find a link to pics in the FAQ Oil drive O-ring thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Thanks. Good pics and write up. So you were able to get the GM o-ring over and around the top of the drive into correct position. That was without doing anything to the o-ring itself. I know someone mentioned they tried putting it in hot/boiling water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Found an issue today, one of the spark plugs has arched thru the rubber boot! Is it possible to swap just the boot? It's for one of the rear plugs which would be quite a chore to replace the whole wire! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 yes you can replace just the boot. However its much easier just to pop a new wire on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) Got a used wire from one of my brother's spare engines. Check out what happened to the one on my car! It arched right through the rubber boot causing a hole and some white residue. Never seen that before. Also found a hole in a previous tape job we did on a vacuum line. Probably cause of the stalling. Will be patching that and other cracked vacuum lines with pieces of 3/8 vacuum hose. Put on a new GM coolant level sensor and have a new GM oxygen sensor to put on as well. Edited August 5, 2013 by tar6569 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 We had a surprise today when it came time to try your method. There was already a gasket in place where the drive sits against the top of the block! I also found a faded date of March 99 written on the rear head so I'm thinking the oil drive pump o-ring may have been done back then when the car was oil 4 years old. Original owner had it until a year ago when it was traded in for a new car. The top of the drive was not previously notched so they would have had to have taken the head off to get that other seal on. With a gasket/seal already there, we just siliconed the that whole area where it sits against the block (did notch the top to get it up enough). Should be fine now. It was definitely seeping there though. Also, we found the cause of all the oil leaking...one of the bolts for the oil distribution cover was loose and you could see where oil was escaping from both sides of the gasket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Have you figured out why the voltage on that plug wire was high enough to punch-through the rubber boot? Excessive spark plug gap due to worn plug(s) would be my first guess. If you don't correct the cause of the high voltage, the same thing will happen again. Blorting a batch of RTV silicone over the top of a potential leak will do absolutely nothing to seal it. Unless the sealer is trapped between the two pieces, the fluid will just push a path through the unsecured sealant. Perhaps the oil pump drive wasn't the source of the leak anyway--it was the loose fastener(s) on the oil distribution cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 We will take the plug out tomorrow and see. Plugs were done in the spring. Also, we got a bunch of silicone between both pieces and all over that seal so that the silicone squeezed out when the drive was pushed back down and tightened. I don't think much was coming out of there with 95K miles and a previous job already done on it but shouldn't be anything now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 The plugs wires that were in the car when I got it were the red/black original style (probably changed when the car was a few years old). I recently realized that those wires were most likely routed incorrectly next to the head instead of on top of the engine. When I changed the plug wires in the spring, I put the new ones in the way the old ones came out but have since seen the correct routing. The incorrect routing left a lot of extra length where they attach to the ignition coils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 We took the plug out today and one side of the electrode had a small nick in it so a new plug it will be. The bottom of the plug was a little black too. It was an AC plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Checked the rest of the plugs today. 5 of the 6 were really clean. The plug wires are fine as well. Swapped the sensor on the throttle body, that didn't change the stumbling either. Were basically going thru the checks listed in the service manual. Changed the O2 sensor too. It stumbles when sitting in park but give it gas and the idle is nice and smooth. Fuel pressure is reading ok. Injectors are on the list of things to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar6569 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 We'll problem has been solved. Steve (SS427) did the plug wire test with the engine running and found one of them wasn't making a spark. Pulled off the coil pack and it was all covered in oil. The connectors that the coil pack plugs into were dirty/deformed and the rubber insulator was half eaten away! Swapped the coil pack and it idles nice and smooth now! He mentioned about seepage on the 3.4's when synthetic oil is used so I'm going back to conventional on my next oil change. Might be why there is so much oil spray/residue everywhere. Still haven't figured out what that mystery wire is for but it doesn't appear to be affecting anything drive-wise. Fixed the busted console and am swapping out the door molding as the original had fallen off then was screwed on by the original owner. Will be heading to EZ Pull next weekend with my cousin to look for parts for his Saab project and I will be looking for a power antenna. Also need to look at the windows. Pass side front has never worked and pass side rear works most of the time (is not working now). The rear one I believe only goes up when not working properly. So I need to figure out why both are not going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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