Probably need new struts - A few questions

[Grand Moff Joseph]

I've noticed over the last few months that the rear end of the Lumina is sitting quite a bit lower than the front, much more so than usual, anyway. Also, the rear-left corner is lower than the rear-right, and the front end is bobbing a decent bit over road bumps. So, my first guess is that the struts are finally kaput, but if this could be a different problem, please say so.

 

A few quick questions:

 

1. If I wanted to stick with OEM, would a dealer even be able to get them, or would I need GM parts direct?

2. Are KYBs worth it for the price?

3. Can we still get coilovers for G1 cars?

 

 

Thanks!

[l67ss]

u can build coilovers cheap also could b ur monoleaf wearin out

[94 olds vert]

Get KYBs those are pretty nice. I really like those in my Ws.

[jman093]

The shocks are probably, but that won't cause a ride height issue. It's either a sagging monoleaf or the leaf pads. My brother's old 90 raised quite a bit in the rear changing out the pads.

 

Factory shock options are now limited to Gabriels, Monroe Sensatracs, or the KYB's. No more factory shocks. There is always the option of Koni race cartridges if you wanted to go bonkers.

 

Coilovers might still be available from westshorefabricators, but building your own is the better way to go. We could all help you with that if you wanted to go that route.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Thanks for the replies, folks! I actually had not even thought about the monoleaf or the pads. Is there a way to examine them and assess their condition? Or, is this a bit of 'you'll know it when you see it' stuff?

 

A couple of follow-up questions/thoughts:

 

1. Don't coil-overs take the place of the monoleaf completely?

2. I looked up the West Shore Fabricator store that was mentioned, but it seems like their products are for Gen II Ws. Would the Gen II coil-overs they have still fit a Gen I?

3. If I go to replace the leaf pads, is it worth replacing the whole leaf too, or would that be overkill? Heck, can we even get new leafs anymore?

 

Thanks!

[White93z34]

The leaf could be damaged and breaking causing that issue. I'd get under and make sure its not cracked or otherwise damaged as the 88-91 leafpsrings generally don't sag like the later ones do. Any noise from the rear suspension? check the monoleaf pads as well.

 

Yeah struts should have no to bare minimal impact on ride height. I wouldn't bother paying more for something with the ACDelco name on it, chances are its a re-branded Monroe or KYB anyhow. As for which to choose, I have run both never noticed too much a difference. Just don't run Gabriels . If I had to choose I'd probably tip my hat to KYB

 

Birchmount springs from Scarborough, Ontario can custom make a steel leaf spring to order If you desire: http://www.birchmountspring.ca/en/

 

And then there is always the DIY rear coil overs.

[vyper144]

I've still got my stock struts and springs I pulled off my 02 Impala, would sell em for cheap if you're interested. They're still in great shape. I only replaced them so I could lower my car. Dunno if you're local to Chicago cuz shipping would be a bitch...

[Grand Moff Joseph]

No extra noise from the rear suspension that I have noticed (or heard over the sound of the Flowmaster, lol). I don't recall doing anything that could have damaged it, but the car is pretty dang old, so it may be cracked. I'll see what I can see.

 

I may look into those Birchmount guys. Do all of their leaf springs lower the ride height, or can I specify stock height? (lots of folks seem to have gone lower w/their springs, so just checking)

 

Finally, while I'm at the suspension work, I'd like to add a few upgrades. So far, my plan is to get:

 

GM P/N 12498642 Heavy Duty Rear Sway Bar w/insulators

GM P/N 12498643 Heavy Duty Front Sway Bar w/insulator and end links

New trailing arms (doesn't GMPP have a P/N for these?)

New lateral arms (old threads suggest Dormans?)

 

Any thoughts on these?

[BS009]

Those sway bars won't bolt on to your car without some modification if this is the car in your sig. They're made for 2nd gens which have different mounting styles for the front and rear.

 

I would try to find a car with the FE3 suspension and grab the sway bars off of one of those and order new polyurethane bushings. You'd probably notice a little bit of a difference with the bushings alone.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Thanks for the heads-up...I did not realize that those sway bars needed to be modded in order to fit. Is this a minor change, or some pretty deep surgery on it?

 

Just to refresh myself here, G1 FE3 cars = Z34s, TGPs, and very few Cutlass models, correct?

[rich_e777]

any w-body with a 3.4 DOHC or a supercharger(L67) 1st gen will have the sway bars you are looking for. `95-`97 Monte Carlo`s have the thickest stock rear sway bar. Cutlass Conv. have a front tower strut brace(FTSB) and you can find rear strut tower brace(RSTB) brackets and bars for sale. I just got a custom one from a member here for $100 but the brackets go for $50 for 1 pair. On your car do you have a rear sway bar already or do you have rubber aux. dampers? aux. dampers suck especially over 20 y/o ones like mine(for now). A rear sway bar would eliminate these anyways. If your leaf pads have never been touched they are probably way over due, problem is there is also retaining bushings closer to the center of the monoleaf and they are a bit pricy. I think rock auto was the only place you can get them and they are about $70 a piece.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

I stumbled on a website called 3800performance.com this morning. They offer BMR branded adjustable lateral arms and tubular trailing arms. Would these fit G1 cars without modification?

 

*I know these won't solve my original problem...I'm just expanding the scope of my potential work to kill a few birds at once*

[BS009]

afaik nobody has really tried to put a 2nd gen bars in a 1st gen. I'm sure it's possible to make the 2nd gen bars fit but it's really not worth the hassle when you can find front 34mm bars in the junkyards that bolt on. I'm not sure what size is on the rear but that might be the only one worth trying. At the very least you'd have to weld brackets onto the struts to make the end links fit on though.

 

Another option for the rear at least is the addco bar. It's pretty expensive but there isn't really anything bigger out there. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aco-474/overview/make/pontiac/model/grand-prix/year/1992

 

Also don't forget that you'll need all new bushings for everything with a bigger bar unless you grab them out of the junkyard.

There's 4 in the front: 2 on the control arms, 2 on the subframe. The one's on the control arms a smaller diameter than the diameter of the bar. I'm not sure what size those are though.

There's 4 in the rear too. 2 on the struts, 2 attach to the frame with links. From what I remember these are all the same size of the bar.

 

Your links in the rear are probably pretty rusted if you see much snow or salt. Mine broke somewhere around 170,000 miles. I'd just take a look under there and see how bad they are. This is assuming your car does have a bar in the back though.

[White93z34]

I'm running 2G lateral links in my TGP, some fabrication is involved though.... fortunately there is a guy...

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/76538-Modified-2nd-gen-Tubular-lateral-arms-for-use-on-1st-gen-cars

 

And yes Birchmount makes them to order.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Here are the stock specs, per 60degv6:

 

GEN. 1 W-BODY

 

Weight Distribution, f/r 65/35

---------------------------------

Front Stabilizer Bar:

Level I

28mm

Level II & III W/3.4 DOHC

34mm

---------------------------------

Rear Stabilizer Bar:

Level I & II

12mm

Level III W/3.4 DOHC

14mm

 

 

The Addco bar is tempting, but if memory serves, didn't a bunch of folks here have issues with those bars? I seem to recall some epic threads on that subject...

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Also, here is a quick video that I took of the rear suspension. I apologize for the shaky camera, but it's the best that my phone could do today, lol.

 

[BS009]

sorry didn't notice this one:

 

Just to refresh myself here, G1 FE3 cars = Z34s, TGPs, and very few Cutlass models, correct?

 

Pretty much. Also 3.4 cars, gtp's, GS's. So basically any performance version should be FE3.

Some other cars could also have it too though. The only way to know for those is to check the RPO code list on the spare tire cover; it'll say either FE1, FE2, or FE3.

 

I'll take a look at my 94 when I get a chance to figure out the size of the control arm bushings and the rear bar.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Since Birchmont can make the leafs to order, could I get away with telling them to make a leaf for a Z34, instead of my specific model vehicle?

 

Or, are the leafs all the same, whether you have FE1, 2, or 3?

[BS009]

There's a lot of different leaf springs

http://www.w-body.com/oldsite/spring-codes.html

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Ah, thanks for the link! Very useful!

 

I'm pretty sure my Lumina came with the FE2 suspension. In theory, using an FE3 leaf shouldn't be overkill....right?

[White93z34]

Not at all. From your video I could not really get a look at what was going on, short of noticing that the underside of the car is really rustfree. Look at the spring and see if its got cracks in it.

 

Also might help to post some pictures of the car so we can see the goofed up ride height.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Not at all. From your video I could not really get a look at what was going on, short of noticing that the underside of the car is really rustfree. Look at the spring and see if its got cracks in it.

 

Also might help to post some pictures of the car so we can see the goofed up ride height.

 

The underside of the car was always pretty clean, since my grandma never drove it that much. (also, no salt in NOLA). But, as soon as we moved to Albany, I found the local Ziebart shop and had them undercoat the whole thing, including the wheel wells.

[BS009]

Looks like my 94 GS with FE3 only came with a 31 mm in the front and a 12 mm in the rear. Control arm bushings are 26 mm. Makes me even happier to be driving my other car...

 

Best bet is to find a DOHC car for the biggest bars.

[jman093]

A few things after catching up on this thread.

 

It's hard to tell if the leaf spring pads are there on not in your video. They should be underneath the ends of the spring where it rests on the knuckle. Make sure they're present and not smashed/rotted out. If they are missing or rotten, you can gain quite a bit of ride height with new pads, so I'd really make sure before spending a lot of money on a birchmount.

 

On the sway bars: The 34mm front bar is what you want. Most FE3 cars should have one and I'm almost positive every LQ1 car received one. I'd put some Energy Suspension poly bushings on it too. Their are part numbers if you search around, or I could dig up them up if you end up doing this as no bushing was a direct fit, but there are some that work great. I wouldn't dick around with a factory rear sway bar. I'd just get the addco bar. It wasn't very expensive last time I checked and it will be better than any stock bar. The fitment issues you recall were one the first gen design, I think they rubbed on gen 1.5 cars. They've all been long since redesigned, but either one will fit yours if you found an ancient used first design.