TGPMike Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I did do some searches but i did not find the answers i was looking for. I'm planing on getting a tgp real soon. But before i buy one i was wondering about some things. First off what is the largest turbo anyone is running. I will be running at least a 61mm turbo on this car. With a boost controller of course. Do these cars use a VTA (vent to atmosphere) blow off valve or a recirculating. I would like to use a recirculating if possible. I've also hear about wastegate springs being weak after like 9lbs of boost so i would plan to change that as well. What kinda injector options do i have found a blurb about some 28lb injectors, i'm thinking about adapting some l67 style injectors to fit this i will also be looking more into this What kinda custom chip stuff can i get. I have seen stuff about a jeff m i think it is chip. But people are going low 14's with pretty much stock or basic mods which is a bit two slow for me (no offense) i also saw some stuff about other chips he's working on. from what i found about the chip is that it is a basic bolt i guess you could say like a dhp v1.0 or something along those lines. What i'm wondering is can a totally one off chip be done for this. Has anyone considered speed pro for this or even a dfi setup. How do these motors hold up to nitrous?It appears some people are running a 50-75 wet shot however i think a dry shot of that magnatude could be run with bigger injectors and some ecm tuning. this is something i will be looking more into What kinda piston's/rods are in here? forged? is the bottom end a 4 bolt main, cross bolt main, 2 bolt main? found after a lot of digging that stock piston are cast which i kinda figured, i still have not found anything about block construction I plan to do a big front mount air to air intercooler, is there anyone out there offering any front mount kits for this car. Found that a member installed a front mount from a late 80's (i think) supraI still prefer to go away from this as there are several places that do wicked air to air intercooler setups that i would prefer to go with. I have seen stuff about cross over pipe. But what about a set of headers i haven't seen any info on that. Found 2 cross overs avaliable and no headers which depresses me a bit. but i have some ideas still Trans isn't much of an issue you as i have already talked with scott cook from intense about some stuff. I understand some of these are newbieish questions but as i said i didn't find much useful info when i searched. My goal is to get this thing into the low 12's if not 11's. I have no problem with high boost and lots of nitrous cause i have one goal to go fast. Any feedback would be appricated. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 What kinda custom chip stuff can i get. I have seen stuff about a jeff m i think it is chip. But people are going low 14's with pretty much stock or basic mods which is a bit two slow for me (no offense) i also saw some stuff about other chips he's working on. No offense, but these are Turbo 3.1's. These motors make 140hp N/A and are pushrods with only 2 valve per cylinder. Not a go fast motor at all. For what it is low 14's is plenty quick. Like I am going to explain, if ou want to go faster than that, a TGP is NOT the car for you. Could you make it go that fast, sure, would it be worth the cost, that depends on how much you think it is worth, it wouldn't be to me. I understand some of these are newbieish questions but as i said i didn't find much useful info when i searched. My goal is to get this thing into the low 12's if not 11's. I have no problem with high boost and lots of nitrous cause i have one goal to go fast. Any feedback would be appricated. I have one suggestion...if you want to go fast, get a car built a little better to go fast. Seeing that nobody has ever run as fast as you would like to run, wouldn't you want to start out with something someone has gone that fast in. Running low 12's on a TGP is going to destroy just about everything in the drivetrain on the car, because that would be over 400hp, and those parts are designed for 200hp. Like I already said, unless you have BIG $$$ to spend, it probably isn't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPMike Posted November 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I actually was interested in doing this as a huge sleeper. I already have a l67 GTP that is faster then what i'm gunning for with this car. I know i saw that no one was going faster then 13.3. Also from what i noticed no one has run a turbo as large as i was planing to run or a custom front mount like i plan to do. for the most part i can get a lot of stuff cheap(due to people i have met over the years) but i need to find some more info out before i go any further with this project. More so about the bottom end of the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPMike Posted November 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Please disregaurd this entire topic, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 the crank is hardened and the block is slightly taller than the normal 3.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I did do some searches but i did not find the answers i was looking for. I'm planing on getting a tgp real soon. But before i buy one i was wondering about some things. First off what is the largest turbo anyone is running. I will be running at least a 61mm turbo on this car. With a boost controller of course. That will probably be the biggest. There are a few guys here who have talked about a TO4B/T3 hybrid with a 50 or 60 wheel. You can control everything you will need through the ECM, probably even to the power levels you need. A seperate boost controller probably wouldn't be neccesary with the proper tuning ability. Do these cars use a VTA (vent to atmosphere) blow off valve or a recirculating. I would like to use a recirculating if possible. I've also hear about wastegate springs being weak after like 9lbs of boost so i would plan to change that as well. Neither. TGPs don't use BOVs originally. Most use VTA as a retrofit. Wastgate starts to open at 4psi. Its a low boost actuator. What kinda injector options do i have found a blurb about some 28lb injectors, i'm thinking about adapting some l67 style injectors to fit this i will also be looking more into this No one supports bigger injectors on the open market currently. One differnece you have between the TGP and the L67 is the TGP uses speed density. So the VE tables have to be completely reworked for almost any change in turbo or the need for larger injectors. Jeff Middaugh does have these kinds of projects in the works but have not been released. What kinda custom chip stuff can i get. I have seen stuff about a jeff m i think it is chip. But people are going low 14's with pretty much stock or basic mods which is a bit two slow for me (no offense) i also saw some stuff about other chips he's working on. from what i found about the chip is that it is a basic bolt i guess you could say like a dhp v1.0 or something along those lines. What i'm wondering is can a totally one off chip be done for this. Has anyone considered speed pro for this or even a dfi setup. We're all trying to go faster. For most here is about going at all, or stopping. No sure what you mean by "basic bolt" if you mean a simple swap out, or bolt on then what chip isn't? These chips aren't hard to read and write to but the code is complex. It can be done though, just have to find someone to do it. Considered speed pro or dfi? Sure, but its kinda cost prohibitive. The weak link isn't the chip and the need for such an expensive setup and the subsequent tuning is beyond what most want to invest in these cars. How do these motors hold up to nitrous?It appears some people are running a 50-75 wet shot however i think a dry shot of that magnatude could be run with bigger injectors and some ecm tuning. this is something i will be looking more into What kinda piston's/rods are in here? forged? is the bottom end a 4 bolt main, cross bolt main, 2 bolt main? found after a lot of digging that stock piston are cast which i kinda figured, i still have not found anything about block construction Pistons aren't forged, don't know of a v6 production motor that uses forged. They are however, high quality mahle cast pistons with a steel reinforcing ring in them. They will hold a lot of abuse. The block is an open main (not skirted) 2 bolt cast cap. Rods are forged. On center block. (not that it can be different). I plan to do a big front mount air to air intercooler, is there anyone out there offering any front mount kits for this car. Found that a member installed a front mount from a late 80's (i think) supraI still prefer to go away from this as there are several places that do wicked air to air intercooler setups that i would prefer to go with. No. My recommendation would be an intercooler from an NPR diesel truck. its abou the largest you could fit and it should work well on the TGP. I have seen stuff about cross over pipe. But what about a set of headers i haven't seen any info on that. Found 2 cross overs avaliable and no headers which depresses me a bit. but i have some ideas still Headers would be very difficult to fit on this application and probably provide little gain. There have been several attempts to get headers made for the regular 3.1 but the cost has been beyond what most were willing to spend. They would not fit the Turbo 3.1 application. The crossover from Jeff Middaugh is not a performance enhancement by itself, but that it restores the proper running of the car and will avoid future crossover failure as its a much improved design that goes through many steps to ensure its quality. Trans isn't much of an issue you as i have already talked with scott cook from intense about some stuff. I would still worry. There are some signifigant differences in these trannies and I don't have confidence it in holding up to the 450 to 500 hp you will need to come close to running those times without some SERIOUS spending. I understand some of these are newbieish questions but as i said i didn't find much useful info when i searched. My goal is to get this thing into the low 12's if not 11's. I have no problem with high boost and lots of nitrous cause i have one goal to go fast. Any feedback would be appricated. You will find that the engine won't be the weak link with your high boost and nitrous thoughts, it will be the transmission. You are going in to new territory and this isn't really a newbie discussion as it is a serious mod discussion. There is a reason you haven't found any info on the things you are looking for. It just isn't being done. Unfortunately a lot of guys either love or hate the TGP and for many its a matter of value. It just isn't worth it. I don't feel this way and would love for someone to see it happen. I think it can, but its going to take out of the box thinking, some serious time, patience and money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 You will find that the engine won't be the weak link with your high boost and nitrous thoughts, it will be the transmission. You are going in to new territory and this isn't really a newbie discussion as it is a serious mod discussion. There is a reason you haven't found any info on the things you are looking for. It just isn't being done. Unfortunately a lot of guys either love or hate the TGP and for many its a matter of value. It just isn't worth it. I don't feel this way and would love for someone to see it happen. I think it can, but its going to take out of the box thinking, some serious time, patience and money. I agree 100% with what Chris says here. After having two TGPs eat both stock trannys with only a chip as a mod, I would have to say that the tranny is going to be the weak link. There are a lot of differences in the 4T65HD(L67) and our 4T60(LG5). A big difference between the two is in the differential, the 4T65HD is huge compared to the 4T60s. Maybe once the supposed HD 5 speed tranny that's being made will be able to hold the kind of power you're looking for. It's supposed to be ablt to hold 450 ftlbs of torque!! :shock: I would also love to see someone make the kind of power you are talking about. Hell, TurboZ24 would probably be close to those numbers if he could run more than 16 psi or so without blowing half-shafts!! http://www.turboz24.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPMike Posted November 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Thank you for the replies, first off intense a while back offered some 4t60 lsd units, I don't know if i was common knowledge over here or not though. Yes i am a l67 guy but i thought that this would be quite the cool project. Jeff M sent me a pm that pretty much answered every question i had orginnally and gave me some more quetions and points to ponder. The turbo i was talking about running is a T3-T4 hybrid with a 61mm wheel in it. Its quite a sick little turbo. i do have a back up plan as i have an extra l36 block lying around. So it is very likely that i might go turbo l36 in a first gen gp as well but right now that decission has not been made. Oh and when i stated a chip as being a basic bolt on mod, i meant that its similar to swaping in a redone pcm(in a l67 car). I didn't mean that writing your own chip was an easy task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Cool, let us know how it goes. I just wasn't clear what you meant, there were some words missing thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Hmmm.... 1st gen W body L36 Turbo? I know someone else doing that. Me! I have a 90 Red TGP that is going to bring a whole new meaning to Turbo Grand Prix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Why an L36 and not an L67? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 1) I have an L36 already. I bought it for $200. 2) I like turbo cars. 3) Why waste a perfectly "good" L67 (if you choose to call it that, noting that I don't like the cookie cutter aspect of the "best" swap) I've never been much of a easy way kinda guy. Or I would have left a SBC in my pickup. Instead I went w/ a Caddy BB for it. An engine that the damn pistons cost over $600 for example (Could have gone w/ a Chebby and pistons would have cost 1/3 of that, I just like to be different) 4) The L36 has the heads that I needed (L67 heads have injector bosses in them) 5) Since I am doing a high boost turbo setup anyway the only thing I would have used (and will be using) from an L67 is the rods. (Intense is using stock rods and hasn't broken a single one yet) I'm using the L36 crank, custom pistons, L67 rods, and a 3800S1 upper intake (it's metal, the plastic one is the demise of most L36's) Unless I go the route of Intense and I will have a sheetmetal intake made <---- Probably what will happen to make room for the Turbo, Precision Turbo PT44 or 64 Turbo, and back it up w/ a 4T 65 E/HD Amongst many other things not listed. 6) Because I want to. 7) Becuase I CAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 I've never been much of a easy way kinda guy. You like to swim upstream too?? I thought I was the only one!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 5) Since I am doing a high boost turbo setup anyway the only thing I would have used (and will be using) from an L67 is the rods. (Intense is using stock rods and hasn't broken a single one yet) Get L32 rods...they are the 3800 SIII rods that intense now uses in their "race blocks" instead of the L67 ones. They are powder forged for more strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 That you already have one is all the reason I need. Composite intake gaskets aren't that great on any motor. I don't like the plastic L36 uppers either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPMike Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 The reason i would have an extra l36 block is a buddy of mine sold it to me for 50 bucks cause he swapped an ls1 into his v6 camaro. The l36 and l67 blocks are the same, the crank is the same as well. I believe the rods are the same too. The only differnce is the pistons on the bottom end. The l36 has a 9.47:1 compression ratio so there not dished as much as l36 pistons. Yeah i already picked up a set of L32 forged rods from gm parts direct. 29 bucks a forged rod now that is the deal of the century. Other differences between the L67 and L36 are the heads, l67 has injector bosses were as the L36's are in the intake. I personally like the plastic intake for its heat distribution. There have been some problems with them failing but in most cases its in car were the dexacool ran low or cruded up. I have an LS1 trans am as well and i have yet to have a problem with the plastic intake. And i truthfully can't say that i have read of failure of one on a LS1. I'm sure there out there though. Also the L36/L67 block allows a intense 4T65E to be mated to it. Which is a good thing if your making tons of power. If you any questions on anything for a turbo L36 setup in a first gen wbody hit me up i have tons of information on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Sounds good, I will do that. Right now I'm just trying to get the damn thing back to my house. U-FUCKING-Haul won't let me tow it w/ my dads Jeep. Something about it being too light. Pussy's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 thats when you tell them you have a 1990 CRX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 yeah, I was thinking an escort or something, never though about an import. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeorge Posted November 8, 2003 Report Share Posted November 8, 2003 Sounds good, I will do that. Right now I'm just trying to get the damn thing back to my house. U-FUCKING-Haul won't let me tow it w/ my dads Jeep. Something about it being too light. Pussy's. thats when you tell them you are just using the Jeep to bring the trailer to the Truck you are using.... I had no Problem with Uhaul using a PLymouth acclaim to haul a beretta because I told them I was just using the acclaim to drive the dolly there and am bringing the Truck back and putting it on the car dolly...and I dont want to pay a $75 fee for a one way trip with a dolly when its a 600mile round trip... which the only streach of the truth was the Truck...because the rental company would not let us use a car dolly behind it. so I just used the Acclaim Im the only person I know that can Rent a Uhaul with Cash and not pay any deposets just the rental fee and I pay for one day and I get it from friday night to monday morning. I rent uhauls 4 times a year so that would be why I get a deal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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