dummkompf Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) ^^does that sound like I mixed up some push rods? I replaced the lim gasket, plenum gaskets, oil pump driveshaft o ring, and coolant bypass pipe o ring using the fel-pro kit, as well as the spark plugs. Now it has this awful sound which was not there before I replaced everything. It's also misfiring which it WAS doing before I replaced everything, but I think that was caused by water leaking into the cylinders. I'm not sure if this sound is just caused by the misfire, which could be caused by bad spark plug wires which i reluctantly re-used. But I'm afraid it's something much worse. I did carefully label the push rods when I removed them, so I was pretty confident that they were all put back in their original places, but accidents do happen.... I'm hoping to get some suggestions before i take the valve covers back off to check for bent pushrods. also the vaccuum hose which goes from the intake elbow the the rear valve cover is broken and i haven't fixed it yet. I plugged up the intake so there's no vacuum leak (it would barely run at all before I did that) but the rear valve cover is still open, just venting into the engine bay... could that be causing the misfire and/or the bad sound? Edited January 15, 2013 by dummkompf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 When I had my 3100, I had several missfire, and even drove 10miles with 1-2 cylinders down. Shook like all hell, but never made a sound like that. I would certainly pull the covers to see whats going on. Exhaust push rods are longer than the intake push rods. Vacuum leaks, although will affect the engine running, wont do anything as such. I hate to say it, but you gotta tear into and see whats going on. Thats not caused by a missfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white96supreme Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 That sounds more like a knock than a tap. If I were to guess, valve kissing top of piston (pushrods incorrectly installed). Like 19cutlass94 said, it really needs pulled back apart and not run anymore in this condition with it sounding like that. You should be able to pull the valve covers to check the pushrods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 crap, that's what i thought you all would say but I was hoping for a miracle.... thanks for the input though if the push rods are in the wrong places, does that mean i will surely be stuck doing a complete valve job? or is there any chance i could just correct the push rods, and replace any that are bent, and then be fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 You might be able to. I'd say better then average chance you'll be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 awesome, that is good news!! lol I knew I shouldn't have had those 6 beers before re-installing the push rods.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 nah beers are for when everything is going back together:thumbsup: The broken piece you are taliking about i belive is part of your PCV system and is a pain in the ass. I put some RTV around the end of my pipe, let it cure to for a seal and now i can just press it back int the rear cover. I dont like the system but if you try and fuck with it you get a code thrown. I tried going with breather filters before, but they make the engine idle high. Now im wondering if its possible to just plug the system at the covers and use air that hasnt been scavenged from inside the engine. Will cut down on the oil thats found in the plenums me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 update - so I pulled the valve covers back off and the push rods were all in the right spots, turns out the problem was that the rocker arms were torqued down too tight. Somewhere on the internet I read that this engine calls for 80 ft lbs on the rocker arm bolts, and I'm pretty sure that's what I used the first time. This time I retorqued them all to 89 ich lbs + 30 degrees, got everything back together and started it up and it is purring like a kitten! I was real excited and relieved at first, until I realized it was pouring out white smoke... WAY more than it should even at startup on a cold day. I let it idle for a good 20 minutes, and then drove it down the neighborhood street and back, and it still never stopped smoking. so now im really worried... this must mean the new lim gasket is leaking coolant into the cylinder, right? not sure how that could be because i KNOW i got those installed correctly and all the bolts torqued down right. the weird thing is it didn't smoke like this even before the lim was replaced, I don't remember it doing this the first time I put it all back together and it had the loud knock. I was hoping there could be a possibility that some water got into the cylinders somhow while the valve covers were off, and that the gasket isn't actually leaking, but i think if that was the case it would've stopped by now. so now do i gotta tear it all back apart? could it be the heads even though it didn't leak like this before I replaced the lim gasket? I'm sure they couldn't have gotten warped after the lim replacement, so if they were warped before I replaced the lim gasket i think it would've had the same amount of smoke back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) another update... THANK GOD! looks like it's ok, i took it for a longer drive and it stopped smoking!! I'm back to feeling relieved that the job is finally done and the car is running. fyi i also got a replacement for the intake to rear valve cover hose from a JY so everything is fixed now on a completely unrelated topic, does anyone know how to disable the locks from automatically locking every time you shift into drive??? that god damn feature has made me lock my keys in the car at least 4 times now!! and it's not even my car, I barely drive it. at least other cars that automatically lock when you shift to drive, also automatically unlock when you shift to park. that way you never lock your keys in the car by accident if you park and step out with the keys in the ignition. the way the lumina is set up almost seems like it's designed to make you lock yourself out! Edited February 10, 2013 by dummkompf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mezz Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) that got me a few times too, what a lousy system! Pulling the chime module did it for me. There's a thread on this that goes into swapping in a newer one that does the auto-unlock too but if you just remove it you won't get locked out again. Found it: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/73661-Auto-lock-unlock?highlight=chime+module Edited February 10, 2013 by j_mezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 What?! How come your car locks when you shift it? I wish mine did it, lol (Of course now the aftermarket keyless entry does it when you turn the car on...BAD idea!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 be careful what you wish for. guaranteed you will regret if you get your wish. at least if it unlocked when you went back into park it would be alright, but it would be best if it never locked or unlocked unless i told it to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 heads up: the intake gaskets when leaking don;t leak coolant into the intake passages, then usually leak it into the oil, but can leak it out side the engine too. I hope the new intake gaskets you used were FEL-PRO Permadry Plus METAL ones. The plastic cheapies will fail again, and sooner than before. You can alter the function of the autolock, with a bit more work... but i just posted in that other thread, but don;t have the diagrams in front of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) well as far as the lock goes, i think i'll just get rid of the chime module... back to my engine problems, im pretty sure now that there is a headgasket leak. first, i was already suspicious of that because of the massive amount of white smoke that was coming out when i started it up on 2/10. it hasn't been driven since then cuz there was still 1 more slight coolant leak that i've been waiting for a chance to fix, where the heater hose/pipe goes into another pipe right before the tstat. it's the pipe just below the bypass pipe. I had replaced the o-ring on it before i put everything back together, but i guess i didn't get it pushed all the way in or just not seated right cuz it was still leaking. today i finally managed to loosen the nut that attaches it to the head without removing anything else (damn that was a challenge to get to it, but glad i didn't have to tear everything back apart again just for that). I wiggled that pipe around a little and pushed it back in as far as it would go and it stopped leaking. so then I started it up and noticed it was smoking again! it was only a little bit, little enough to seem normal if it was a cold morning. but it was 4pm and 55 degrees outside. then after running it for only about 60 seconds, not enough for the engine to even warm up, i shut it off and noticed a lot of pressure built up in the coolant system. I unscrewed the cap half way and a bunch of cool water spurted out (not even warm yet but under a lot of pressure). soooo... i dont think it's normal for the coolant system to build up pressure before it gets hot, right? but a leaking head gasket probably could cause that? also the smoking... it's making me think there is a slow leak that is allowing coolant to just slowly seep into the cylinders while the engine is off (it was sitting for a long time before the first time i noticed a lot of smoke, and it was only sitting for 2 days this time when i saw just a little smoke) Edited February 13, 2013 by dummkompf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 well without even getting any replies yet im about 99% sure that the head gasket is bad. cant say im incredibly surprised as it was driven a lot with a bad coolant leak, overheated a few times, i was just hoping that the engine had been shut down early enough each time to prevent any damage to the heads/head gaskets, but i guess not. so now im debating whether i should just try and use some of that head sealer stuff, or just tear everything down again and check the heads/gaskets. IF I replace the head gaskets, should I be fine re-using the lim, plenum, and valve cover gaskets that were just replaced? I'm sure the valve cover gaskets are ok but I don't know if the others are re-usable? I may just try the blue devil sealer stuff as I've heard good things about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 If it's been overheated you may have warped or cracked heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) ya, it's gotta be that or the gasket. I took another drive about 5 miles or so and the coolant isn't leaking externally at all, not seeing any smoke except a tiny bit at startup, but the temp needle goes back and forth from being all the way up to the top white line (just not quite in the red) to down on the L, spending most of the time in between... i'd think air bubble or bad tstat if it wasn't for the pressure building so quickly, and the fact that coolant is boiling and/or exhaust gases are bubbling into the coolant reservoir when i shut the car off it didn't take much thought to decide the stopleak stuff is a really bad idea, i just dread the thought of tearing it down again, but that's what i'll have to do. on the plus side this will be basically the third time so it should go much faster and easier. the hardest part was figuring out how to get all the vacuum lines and electrical lines and everything all routed correctly and back in the right spots, but that should be a lot easier this time. and if i can re-use the gaskets then i can get the head gaskets and bolts for the same amount i would spend on that blue devil stuff, i guess i'll probably do the valve seals too.... never been that deep into an engine before so i don't know anything about them, but i see they come in some of the fel-pro kits so i figure they're probably a good idea. p.s. i did use the fel-pro set with the new metal/rubber lim gaskets, along with the new plenum gaskets and perma-dry valve cover gaskets that came in the set. so are those all re-usable, now that the engine has been driven a few miles and has been warmed up all the way with them installed? Edited February 13, 2013 by dummkompf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 Stop leak is horrible. I had a flip up sunroof that leaks installed, and still putting in stop leak tops that for things I've done to the car that I regret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dummkompf Posted February 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) lol ya i knew it was a bad idea from the start, for a minute i considered that so i wouldn't have to tear it all back apart but that would not be good... also im curious, if the leak is from a crack and not the gasket, will it be easy to see when i take it apart? like would it always be a big obvious crack or could there be some tiny hairline crack that's difficult to find? edit - 1 more question - I'm assuming that it's uncommon for the block to crack in these engines, right? I'd hate to do all the work repairing the head/gasket and then find out i have a cracked block Edited February 13, 2013 by dummkompf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhildebrand Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you have a good machine shop near by, take both of your heads into them. I did this when I did my head gaskets, had them machined and the valves ground. For your cracked head: I don't have the pictures on this computer, but, I recently overhauled an old tractor and I did not see any cracks in the head at all. The machine shop can pressure test them, and when he did, a nice crack appeared. More than one actually. If it is an option to you, have the heads pressure tested so you know if the heads are good or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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