what wideband are you using?

[Garrett Powered]

I use the innovate LC-1 on two cars and a different one from PLX devices on the red tgp, but this one looks new and simplified: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

 

Has anyone tried the new MTX-L yet? I saw one on Amazon for only $155 bux. sounds like the controller box has been eliminated in this design. yay for that

[RobertISaar]

neat.... it's all integrated into the guage.

[skitchin]

Seems to use the same O2 sensor and even gauge layout as the AEM wideband gauges. They're around the same price range too I think

[Garrett Powered]

except the AEM only goes from 10-20 AFR when the Innovate will read 7.35-22.39 so its way wider and has a narrow band simulator for hooking up to the ECM that AEM looks like they don't have at all.

 

they use the same sensor but in a different way. the AEM has no free air calibration so it may, or may not be as accurate over the life of the sensor. kind of like my PLX devices wideband, but at least that one has a narrowband wire. I am not even sure if the ECM even needs that wire to function correctly. I just hook it up because I don't know any better.

[Garrett Powered]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNOVATE-3845-MTX-L-DIGITAL-WIDEBAND-AIR-FUEL-GAUGE-KIT-/370521179986?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5644c88752&vxp=mtr

 

 

bought it.

 

 

my PLX is toast. washed the car and the stupid module in the engine bay was right where the louvers drain to. filled the thing up with water and fried it. not sure how this didn't happen all the other times I washed it.

 

I got the powersports version which just means shorter cable. 4.5 ft instead of 10.

[carkhz316]

Bummer about that. How was it though? I really need to get one before I get an in-car tune done on the Monte. I also want to get an Aeroforce Interceptor gauge someday as well, but figured I'd start with a wideband first.

[Garrett Powered]

it was awesome. my car was running real good with it for a long time.. years now it seems. crossing my fingers that installation goes smoothly and I get it working good right away with the thresholds and voltages. I remember the afr was off by 1 between the data stream and the gauge using the PLX module. that seemed strange about it. it's a damn quick car though.

[Garrett Powered]

got it in the mail today and it's awesome looking. If I like it will order one for each one of my cars. The black TGP needs a new bung welded on the DP up closer to the turbo. the way we mounted it down by the firewall sucks, the wiring keeps wanting to melt on the back manifold and its a bitch to access the sensor.

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Drag-Specialties-O2-Weld-In-Sensor-Bungs-45-Deg-Angle-18mm-x-1-5-1861-0694-/190861992098?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c7042e0a2&vxp=mtr

 

look at this bung!

 

I was also looking at this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-52mm-Car-Exhaust-Gas-Temp-Temperature-Gauge-EGT-2-12-X100C-O2-Sensor-7-colors-/330892947515?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0ac1b03b&vxp=mtr

 

 

just beginning to do research on egt's

[Garrett Powered]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-52mm-Car-Exhaust-Gas-Temp-Temperature-Gauge-EGT-2-12-X100C-O2-Sensor-7-colors-/330892947515?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0ac1b03b&vxp=mtr

 

something like this seems to read way hotter temps. still only $50.

 

 

don't like the color. anybody know a good quality one?

[Garrett Powered]

 

done installing the new MTX-L and here's what it looks like. just need to find out how to switch it over to this WB from the calibrations from the PLX devices WB.

 

I looked in the scalars and compared the wideband additions 1-5 are all the same as the bins for the white and black cars (which use the innovate LC-1) so I looked in the definition and it looks like its set up for use with the innovate LC-1. but it seems like the BIN is where I need to look.

 

 

looks like the gauge reads rich but tunerpro reads lean(or vice versa). reads 12 afr when TP reads 10 at first readings. the gauge face does letters too, when you start the car it reads "htr"(heater for warm up of the sensor) for a few seconds and then 12 before the ecm tries to start trimming and then it swings wildly and stalls. I know Saar is going to have the solution for me, but I have been looking around at 60 Degree and third gen forums for info first to see if I could get lucky but still pretty clueless. looks like I am going to need you, Robert

Edited July 10, 2013 by Garrett Powered

[RobertISaar]

this sounds fun...

 

datalog with relevant info and i'll see what i can do.

 

as for getting the guage and tunerpro to agree on an AFR, i have a pretty simple solution for that.

[Garrett Powered]

cool, thanks very much. I emailed that stuff to you.

[Garrett Powered]

so what's the solution entail? something in the bin?

[RobertISaar]

no, it's all in the ADX. nothing in the BIN particularly cares about the AFR conversion.

 

with an unexplained offset or an entirely unknown AFR conversion, easiest way to get the conversion pounded out is to get the WB reading steady at at LEAST two AFRs(more is better), then check the number of A/D counts registering over the datastream, throw them into a lookup table in the ADX. at that point, all AFRs between the highest and lowest points defined will be correct. have to extrapolate beyond those points if necessary to get the 0 and 255 count AFRs for the full range.

[Garrett Powered]

cool, I sent you the ADX I use. you probably have it already, but just in case

[Garrett Powered]

no, it's all in the ADX. nothing in the BIN particularly cares about the AFR conversion.

 

with an unexplained offset or an entirely unknown AFR conversion, easiest way to get the conversion pounded out is to get the WB reading steady at at LEAST two AFRs(more is better), then check the number of A/D counts registering over the datastream, throw them into a lookup table in the ADX. at that point, all AFRs between the highest and lowest points defined will be correct. have to extrapolate beyond those points if necessary to get the 0 and 255 count AFRs for the full range.

 

trying to follow you, but... I actually remember something about modding the ADX back in 2010 or whenever we set it up the first time for the PLX WB, but I didn't understand why it ran better if the bin is in the car and the adx is only on the laptop.

[RobertISaar]

..... the ADX never leaves the laptop, it's only purpose is to initiate and translate the datastream.

 

the BIN obviously moves back and forth since it needs read out to be modified and has to be burned back to have the ECM actually have code to execute.

[Garrett Powered]

 

 

this is what it's doing. you can skip the first 1:30 when I was setting it up in front of the camera. I seem to have an issue when turning the key and it not powering up til after the starter kicks. not sure if I got dirty contacts or what. psyched me out when I first got it hooked up too but I always get it to work.

[RobertISaar]

odd.....

 

that's the video of the datalog you sent?

 

something that is particularly odd from the video alone is that the ECM attempts to be going into closed loop before ever getting close to the stoich AFR. that will certainly cause issues. knowing GM, it's a programming issue since i had to patch around this in the 94-95 3100 code actually.

 

it seems that they didn't anticipate the O2 sensor being able to heat up and start responding as quickly as it does, so it starts trying to go closed loop with a very rich AFR.

 

also, other little details: for the narrowband sensor input to the ECM, i assume you are using the wideband controller to simulate it or are you running a seperate sensor?

[Garrett Powered]

you should have that datalog now..

 

the old WB and the 88's LC-1 used to always be at around 14.7 from the time you start the car. lately the 88 has been taking its sweet time before it works it's way up from 12:1 to 14.7 at idle. the red car can't seem to work into an idle at all.

 

yep, always have used the narrowband signal wire out of the wb. doesn't it take the wb and convert it to nb inside the controller so it functions like it should? I always wondered if it was real or fake, of course it's real, it needs that to fuel the car still.

[RobertISaar]

yes, it takes the WB converted AFR and simulates what a narrowband O2 sensor's signal is supposed to look like. some controllers do better than others in terms of just how the signal is supposed to look, but more often than not, if there is a "problem" with the simulated signal, you can correct for it in the calibration.

 

i keep getting swamped with too much stuff during the day, i should be able to sit down and look at everything in-depth tomorrow afternoon.

[Garrett Powered]

I just found out that innovate changed the wire colors for wideband and narrowband signal wires.

 

 

 

 

 

now brown is nb(1 volt), and yellow is wb(0-5V). by default. opposite but same two colors as the LC-1. april fools!

 

now should I pull my dash off again or can I just change it in by hooking up a laptop and use software from them?

 

I had proper color yellow and brown wires of my own I used on the install.

 

 

 

I can't understand why they would dupe me like that. It's like having a car stereo and now the remote wire is red and the constant 12v+ is blue?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Garrett Powered

[Garrett Powered]

the car smells less smoggy. especially at the taco bell drive through, I noticed this.

 

I like the wiring under the hood with the powersports version. So I made a quick video:

 

 

I just bought two more for the other cars.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=innovate+mtx-l&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.Xinnovate+mtx-l+3845&_nkw=innovate+mtx-l+3845&_sacat=0#item5644c88752

[Garrett Powered]

looks like the sensor does not like being in the turbo for too long. I have been getting error codes E-8 and E-9 and according to the manual this is bad. I used to have a copper heat shield made out of flashing. I might have to make another one tomorrow and swap sensors and see if it's any better.

 

Error 8 Sensor Timing

error (typically a

damaged

sensor).

1. Sensor overheating.

(The Bosch LSU4.2 is rated to

operate at a sensor housing

temperature of < 900 degrees

(measured at the bung) for

maximum accuracy and control.

When this operating temperature

range is exceeded, the sensor can

no longer be accurately

controlled.)

2. Sensor is damaged

3. Overly Rich condition

1. a. Perform sensor heater

recalibration; b. Move your sensor

bung as far downstream as possible.

Right before the cat, or 2-3 feet from the

end of the tailpipe are good locations; c.

Add a heatsink to isolate the sensor

from the pipe. The HBX-1 is an

available accessory.

2. Replace sensor.

3. Correct Tune and recalibrate the

sensor.

Error 9 Supply Voltage

too low

Supply voltage too low for sensor

regulation

Check your 12V connection for corrosion.

 

...the idle charge has felt weak during the cold months. I am having this alt tested for idle amp output. also might bump the idle speed in the tune for a month or two. I'll check the connections but I know its the low rpms when the rad fan kicks on. but also need to think about relocating the sensor if the heat shield don't work.

 

The other way I could do it is, lean it out some in the tune here and there. it takes a few minutes to lean out at idle good before I can drive and always boosts pretty rich. but it will hold a 14.7 idle for awhile after it warms up. after I check the plugs I will calibrate the sensor and scan it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Garrett Powered

[Garrett Powered]

answer to my problem was bad battery. they never last that long for me, no surprise. thank you warranty