TGP Intake polish or no?

[DefEddie]

I coated the upper intake to my TGP motor and not sure if I should polish the raised areas and lettering or not.

The coating is a functional thermal dispersant,not pretty.

So if I polish out the raised areas it will basically negate the effects of the coating in those high profile/high surface areas.

But damn it would look good.

Need an opinion because I prob won't use it,pisses me off it faces the wrong direction (fiero).

I think it would look great but much cooler air temps are nice on a turbo.

 

It's not high gloss,just kinda semi gloss.

[94 olds vert]

I think it wold look really cool if it were polished.

[Garrett Powered]

aluminum is already the best at dispersing heat so you will not need to paint it. I would just use more effective means of cooling intake charge. I think it might help cast steel but I would still opt for a light coat of oil instead.

 

for making it flow better, port match the gaskets

[DefEddie]

Sorry,thought I made it clear but it's not paint or powdercoat.

It's a specially designed coating that promotes heat transfer in all materials.

It allows the aluminum to transfer more efficiently (the flanges have a different coating that does the opposite and create a thermal barrier).

http://techlinecoatings.com/hi-performance/disperse.html

The more air flows over it the quicker it drops temps

We measured below ambient temps on my buddies intake with throttle,at idle it doesn't help much without airflow moving over or through it.

 

Not sure if I want to screw with it.

[Garrett Powered]

the best way to cool them is internally with cold air. radiating heat off the intake faster will just add more heat to the engine bay if you think about it. if hot air is never introduced it will not have a chance of heat soaking parts.

[DefEddie]

Ok,so you don't like thermal coated parts or horsepower

 

So that's 2 for pretty,none for all black.

Polishing it is,thanks

[Garrett Powered]

I would dyno the same car two times with two setups

 

1. car has cold air intake and bare metal intake.

 

2. car has painted intake and no air filter.

 

that is one way to see if you gain horsepower

[DefEddie]

It's been done,SBC with triple coated manifold gained 25hp.

Nascar,Indy,Buell,Harley davidson etc... All disagree with you.

Wasn't really trying to debate it.

[Garrett Powered]

you are debating it though. I realize the decision has been made I just was curious what you thought your gains would be and you are under the impression you will gain 25 HP with this?

 

damn I would really like to see dyno results now. no offense

[DefEddie]

You're putting words in my mouth,I never claimed i expected 25hp from it.

Other people have tested coatings and on an intake manifold for a SBC they gained 25hp.

I don't have the dyno,and i've not dyno'ed one personally.

 

I have coated and installed one on a 600+hp small blcok though,and we had to rejet to carb two sizes and adjust plug gap to compensate for the cooler charge and less fuel drop out just like advertised.

 

If you want to know more,ask.

But please don't lay your opinion down on things you don't know about with furthur research.

No way I can't make that sound good,so just don't take it as condescending please.

Research it,then bash or debate it if you like.

The company newsletter is a good place to start.

 

I'll throw some numbers out,like average %20 drop in intake temps,or %10 increase in power and mileage for exhaust or piston coatings.my favorite is the 5hp briggs that got dynoed before/after a piston coating and gained like %20hp.

The info is out there,since i'm not making any claims though,I don't feel encumbered to search for it.

[Garrett Powered]

I would like to see datalogs to prove it works. MAT temp readings will tell the tale and its 20% drop should register pretty clearly if it works.

 

there that will take my opinion out of the equation. by the way I have no opinion on this.

[DefEddie]

In the spirit of knowledge and community I would extend a small offer however if you or anyone else is interested.

I will provide the manifold if somebody wishes to dyno their car before and after.

I only ask that it be a same day swap/dyno and that a full datalog be recorded during runs as well as external manifold temps taken.

The recipient just needs to be a reputable member with a TGP,the vote of the community will be enough for me to trust it to who will do it.

If your localish to me i'll even get the appt at the local dyno shop and we can change it out there and i'll do the labor free.

I could persuade the owner to give you a reduced rate for the runs probrably.

I would like my own definitive proof on paper for the intakes as well, the ones i've done haven't been dyno'd.

[Garrett Powered]

its a possibility. I have a dyno hook up in town here that I get cheap dynos done at.

[RobertISaar]

i love when arguments turn into potential sources of good info.

[Garrett Powered]

ya me too

 

gotta do sum dynos soon anyways haha

[Garrett Powered]

you can trust me with it.

[DefEddie]

I really didn't want to argue,while i've seen enough evidence to know without something to present that is solid here then what's the point?

I can set a lighter to one spot on this thing for a full minute and then instantly touch it and it is pretty much cool to the touch.

Cooling off time is also cut in half between preheating and after curing when I use a fan to cool it.

The kicker for me was on my friends small block. Can't remember exactly how much,but under throttle the manifold external temp actually dropped below outside temperture which was in 60's/70's iirc.

He's actually seen a coated manifold ice up on an engine dyno,though he didn't know what was used.

 

Keep in mind it is more than just the black coating you see.

It promotes heat transfer efficiency up to 20% iirc.

On the flanges and runners/interior it is coated with a thermal barrier that inhibits heat transfer. (On a lower intake the bottom would be coated as well)

 

So we are blocking heat from transferring into the intake from the heads as well as the intake to the Tb/Carb. And the interior coating is blocking the heat that does get into the manifold from the air flowing thru it as well as smoothing out the airflow and helping velocity.

(On a carb,a 2nd interior topcoat is also used that reduces fuel dropout in the manifold)

 

Now the black coating you see on the top and bottom of this upper manifold is to boost the transfer of any heat that does get into it.The more air passes over/thru it the quicker it dissipates the heat.

 

So it is more a system.

Ceramic or powdercoating on manifolds act as insulators. They will help keep heat out of the manifold for a bit but once it gets heatsoaked it will then insulate the heat from escaping.

 

When would you want to do it?

It's not finished being coated completely and i've just started the polishing.

My life being what it is,I could rush the coating and worry about the polishing later prob.

But I really don't want to wait long for it to be returned.

I'll pay for shipping both ways,you pay for the dyno runs and agree to take several datalogs before,during and after. Everything I want will be in there,the dyno sheet and hoping it won't be a bother to film with an external temp gauge or if you know how to add/log an external sensor into the datalog thru ecm that would be much easier.

[Garrett Powered]

I know I can get a base log of what I got now and verify the MAT is a believable number. then datalog with the treated intake. if its still a believable number then proceed with dyno pulls. all the while datalogging

 

I would then send the intake back to you and gather the data all up the next time I dyno. and that point I will be able to complete the study.

[DefEddie]

If you'll datalog before and after that is enough for me,I want the data more than I want hp numbers.

Still need to finish up the interior and flange coating,should do that in next few days just waiting to finish prep on the lower intake.

I try to get several done at once and i'm barrier coating the TGP lower intake as well as an L67 lower and M90 case at same time.

 

So I can send it to you in the next week or so i'm sure.

 

But I still need more than 3k forum posts and your ok to trust it to you.

Not that it is extremely valuable,but the time and product is.

To prep and coat small block intakes run $150,it's hard work and expensive materials.

So have someone help convince me to send you a manifold I figure is worth around $150 total and pay the shipping to do it

 

Unfortunately I don't frequent this forum very much,so i'm unfamiliar with you enough personally.

I can provide references as well,just recently I sold a custom injection system online that I put together and coated for over $1k to a member on a forum i've been on for almost 10yrs probrably.

 

I just don't wanna wait 6mos for results or the manifold back,if you understand.

For that much trouble i'll buy the intake for sale here on the forum and just run the tests myself real quick when I drop in the motor.

 

So people speak up with feedback and help us get more resolution on coatings effectivness.

[Penglii]

Mr. Garrett Powered is a very trustworthy fellow, I would vouch for him and I have had nothing but good experiences involving him.

My individual opinion may not be worth much, but I guarantee other people will agree.

[Garrett Powered]

are you coating your exhaust manis too? I got a used jeff m crossover with the black coating on it I bought from a guy in nebraska a long time ago. looks good at least. I forget, It's ceramic maybe?

 

never really paid it no mind, but I have that one installed on my black TGP currently. In the spirit of quality and durability I might do a set of log manifolds one day if anything.

 

I guess the first thing to consider is if the data is worth gathering, or the value of disproving the myth. like I said I would only mess with coating exhaust parts mainly for looks and match the black crossover I have. was thinking back and one time I noticed MAT numbers climb way up and I couldn't explain it, other than that no, but I do try to monitor MATs for that kind of stuff. perhaps if I encounter the same climbing numbers again it will warrant further consideration.

[Garrett Powered]

Mr. Garrett Powered is a very trustworthy fellow, I would vouch for him and I have had nothing but good experiences involving him.

My individual opinion may not be worth much, but I guarantee other people will agree.

thanks bro:thumbsup:

[DefEddie]

are you coating your exhaust manis too? I got a used jeff m crossover with the black coating on it I bought from a guy in nebraska a long time ago. looks good at least. I forget, It's ceramic maybe?

 

The product I use has different types of coatings for exhaust,including a black called TurboX which is predominately used for downpipes/housing etc..

The most well known is the CermaKrome though which is a polished looking finish.

It keeps the exhaust heat inside the tube which helps with expansion and velocity of the exhaust.

Plus the corrosion factor. All the manufacturers/companies exhausts I listed above are coated with techline products.

This is actually something i'm pretty sure has been proven to help time and again by dyno charts,coated manifolds make a difference. On a turbo vehicle with coated housings even more so.

I don't have those exhaust products onhand,but i've been meaning to order some.

 

 

I guess the first thing to consider is if the data is worth gathering, or the value of disproving the myth. like I said I would only mess with coating exhaust parts mainly for looks and match the black crossover I have. was thinking back and one time I noticed MAT numbers climb way up and I couldn't explain it, other than that no, but I do try to monitor MATs for that kind of stuff. perhaps if I encounter the same climbing numbers again it will warrant further consideration

 

I think it is worth it enough on anecdotal evidence from my personal experience and the research i've done.

Enough so i'm willing to pay shipping just to get the data,which isn't cheap and i'm on a budget.

I am fully equipped to test many different ways here if I sit down and spend time on test jigs and setting up sensors. But the definitive for me is the actual engine data when correlated from a before/after with all things being equal.

 

If you are interested I will try and put together links and post up. Most people haven't heard of it because it can be pretty expensive to utilize on a street vehicle.

But it is definately not a myth,actual power gains being relative to application the fact is dense air/cold air makes power. I think the math averages to a 10* drop averaging to 1%hp.

 

So the question you have is basically will the coating effect manifold temps enough to drop intake air temps.

 

I would bet the manifold on it (not the shipping though )

.

 

I've only been playing with this stuff for a little while,and just nearing the ends of the two engines i'm using as a testbed.

I don't coat as a business really so my experience is limited. If your already set up for powdercoating I would suggest at least buying a small bit and trying it out. I'm impressed,it's used in industry alot.

[no1kicker]

How about coating all the intake piping including the intercooler itself?

[DefEddie]

Yes and yes

Now your getting the idea.

Supposed to boost intercooler efficiency and compressor housing as well,especially when coupled with something blocking the heat on the interior.

Also the underside of pistons etc..

Every part on that table above is coated with something for either oil retention,repel oil,enhance lubrication,shed heat,block heat,retain heat,build tolerance or any number of reasons.

 

There is a guy that does M90's like i'm doing mine. Shed heat on outside,build clearance and smooth barrier lubricant on interior as well as rotors. He got 10hp and 2psi more boost on I believe a thunderbird m90.

He has a website somewhere with dyno sheet I think.

 

It's very interesting,it was alot of cash on some product so I researched the crap out of it before.

Hard to find info as only a few companies are really playing with it and it is nowhere near mainstream yet other than the exhaust stuff.