regalman Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Notice that I am loosing coolant and borrowed coolant system pressurizer. Looks like coolant leaking from intake and running down the block next to the water pump. I was hoping that it is coming from the pump, but I can not tell for sure. Is there a way to tell for sure if it is the pump or leaking from the manifold. There is no mixture of coolant and oil in the crankcase. If coolant was leaking wouldnt it mix with oil if intake gasket was bad?. From what I have seen, I do not have to pull heads to change intake gasket. I am looking for advice on this issue and as alway thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumiLTZ Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is this a 3800 series II (L36/L67)? If so my first guess is you have a bad coolant elbow on the belt tensioner or the o-rings on the elbow are leaking coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 x2 on the coolant elbows. They fail alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 no, it is the series 1 type engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think on that engine the elbows are cast. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumiLTZ Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Hmmm can't recall how a S1 3800 is set up as it's been a few months since I've looked at a S1 3800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Its probally LIM gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you're sure it's leaking out that side of the engine it's most likely the water pump. I had mine fail and it took me a week or two of replacing parts to realize that was it. Â btw series one's use rubber bypass hoses. Typically not an issue but worth looking at. Â Typically when l27 LIM gaskets fail they leak into the intake manifold. They're not well-known to leak outside the engine so I doubt that's your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtpKo Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Generally throwing parts at a problem isn't good practice, but I would go ahead and replace the water pump since its a cheap part and easy to do, and should be done anyway after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yea can see leak to right of the pump when pressurized. I will pull alternator and pressure test again to get better look, changed that crappy little hose a year ago but that doesnt mean squat .I hope that when i pull belt of of pump that the shaft wiggles and you are right. It has 130 thousand miles and could stand a new pump anyway and they are easy to change, changed one on my last 3800. I will update Sunday after changing pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 well strange things going on, leak stopped for a few day and now it is pouring coolant out from right hand side of block next to water pump...would a bad intake gasket cause coolant to leak out of motor but not into the crankcase? I can really see where it is coming from but runs out pretty fast at time t6o the right of the pump. It is not the bypass hose or the elbow leaking. It is the 94 3800 so it has the cast cooling nipples, I am at my wits end...would a bad intake gasket pour coolant out. This has the plastic two piece manifold, might have to go to shop for diagnostics, then fix it my self. It looks like heads do not have to be pulled to replace the intake. It is the series L motor, not the notorious later 3800 that is known to leak..any advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Have you already replaced the water pump like you were saying in your last post?  - When you say the right hand side of the block do you mean when you are looking at it from the front of the car or from the passenger side of the car? If you're looking at it from the passenger side of the car then I cannot possibly believe the intake gasket would be pouring out coolant so this leaves just one of the hoses that's there. It's most likely to be a rubber heater core hose, however there is a steel tube that goes into the back side of the water pump for the pressure side of the heater core hose. It's held in by one of the tensioner pulley bolts. You don't need to take the tensioner off, just loosen the bolts and you should be able to wiggle it free. When you pull it out there's an o-ring that acts as its seal into the water pump that you would just need to replace. However, this is only something I would pull out if you're absolutely sure the leak is no where else on the passenger side of the engine. I couldn't find the right o-ring for it so I ended up buying the conversion gasket kit just to find the o-ring. It was nothing short of a pain in the but; if you can determine that it's not leaking I would leave it alone forever until you know for sure that it leaks.  - If it's on the passenger side and you've replaced the water pump already, take a look at the radiator hoses and the heater core hoses. One of them would have to be leaking.  - Otherwise I would say it's the water pump or it's gasket, but if you take it off, you're replacing the gasket anyway and as you get closer to 200,000 miles the water pump is bound to leak out of its shaft anyway.  However  If by right side of engine you mean the right hand side when looking at the engine from the front of the car...  bolted on to the intake manifold underneath the throttle body is an aluminum piece of the intake manifold. This piece only has coolant passing through it and is held in by 3? bolts. It's hard to see without taking the throttle body off, and once you can see it the exhaust will be in the way. However you should be able to get it off with some socket extensions and open-ended wrenches. If this is the area it's leaking from, this is Definitely your leak.  You can find the gasket separately on rockauto.com but Autozone and AdvanceAuto don't stock it separately. If you just can't get a hold of it, you can use permatex thermostat housing sealant. I ended up doing that the third time because I needed the car to be done right away. Just make sure you give it time to cure. Edited November 19, 2012 by BS009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Thanks for the input, no I did not change the water pump yet, it is leaking from that side of the motor though. I know that it does not have the plastic elbows that crack though, that is on the later model 3800s, what i did not know is that therr is a coolant line going into the back of the water pump, the bypass hose is dry. but the leak seems to be dripping down the block to the right of the water pump. all hoses are dry and no coolant is present in the crankcase...gotta be the pump or that o ring i hope. I was not aware of another water passage on that pump other than the bypass hose on the top of the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 thanks for the information, this is the L27 motor, not sure if the water pump has the heater core hose that goes into it though. I surely hope so, as it was pouring coolant out the other day and /i have to get it fixed. you sure that it has the heater core house that goes into it. I believe yu are as you own a 94 regal also, please shed some more light on this..pilling the pump this weekend..as always thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 yes, I'm totally sure. I pulled the tube out on mine when i did the LIM gaskets thinking that I would just be replacing the o-ring but the o-ring I put back in there with it didn't seal right and it was a pain in the but getting it to fit right and not leak. It goes into the engine side of the water pump and it's under a fair amount of pressure when the engine is running. It's not actually on the pump itself, but it's on the engine side of the pump's housing. I should be able to get some pictures of it tomorrow assuming I still have a spare L27 lying around. The tube is definitely back there though. There is also a tube for a return from the heater core hose that could be leaking. Â I still think it might be your water pump or maybe its gasket though. The heater core tube I'm referring to is to the left of the water pump facing the firewall. You said your leak was to the right of the water pump though. Â One way to check whether or not your water pump is leaking is to look at the hoodliner above where the serpentine belt is. If it's a different color there then you most likely have a leaking water pump (unless you're also leaking powersteering in which case that's power steering fluid up there). Â Can you actually see where it is dripping from? Maybe a picture would help me get a better idea of where you can see the leak at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 thanks man does that K and N filter show are a great increase in power in your vehicle please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 thanks man does that K and N filter show are a great increase in power in your vehicle please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 to be honest, you can hardly tell the difference in power. However it sounds really good on these engines, and you might notice an increase in gas mileage. Otherwise there really isn't a big difference with this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 So i replaced the LIM and upper plenum gaskets and still have that leak, they needed replaceing as they were seeping, My mechanic fried looked and said the timing chain cover was leaking....does collant flow through that cover or behind it...please advise.loosedn radiator cap to cut oil pressure so it doesnt leak much but still leaks....thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 coolant pressure not oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted November 26, 2012 Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 That's definitely a possibility that would make a lot of sense. Coolant flows through the timing cover to the water pump. The water pump is actually bolted onto the timing cover. This is the gasket kit that you would use for this. The larger square ports on the u-shaped gasket is where the coolant flows through. Oil is also flowing through this gasket because IIRC the oil pump is on the inside of the timing cover. e The parts are fairly inexpensive, but it's a pretty involved process. You'll be pulling off the harmonic balancer, water pump and basically everything else on this side of the engine. I would say it could definitely take the whole weekend. I have never had to pull one myself so I can't really say from experience though. Just out of curiousity, how many miles are on your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Its got 123k on it and it runs good, just wish i would of looked A little closer when i did the LIM, but since the gaskets was seeping on it fell apart when i pulled the manaifold it was due.... Never had the happen before, but first time for everyting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regalman Posted November 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yea the coolant and an little bit of oil is running down the block next to the right hand port for coolant on the timing chain cover, it pours out the engine is warm, better diagnosis of the leak would of found it. didnt see it right even with pressure test, I was so wrapped up that the LIM that was seeping on that side. But in hind sight I should of known that coolant goes through the cover to deliver it to the water pump. And the LIM would be pouring to leak that much and it was just seeping. If been turning a wrench for myself for 40 yeras and I am disappointed. but you live and learn and I will , but nice to see everything dry except......Now I know how to help others on this forum diagnose this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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