Chris2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I will not, cannot, vow not to change my tranny fluid, being that it's never been changed. Why - I've been told and have known for many years that doing so (when it hasn't been changed regularly) is a NONO. I was listening to Ron Ananian ("the Car Doctor") on the radio some time ago and his rationale for trannys FREQUENTLY FAILING subsequent to changing old tranny fluid is that new tranny fluid is very detergent, meaning it'll dissolve built up varnish on the walls of the tranny, which contains dirt and other gunk, which gets mixed up w/the new tranny fluid, and scrubs down everything inside the transmission. Sounds credible to me. But regardless I have known of many cases where people have had trannys fail after the (old) fluid has been changed. So I just can't do it. But...It would be nice if there was an alternative. If you could say change it (some alternative!), drive it for some (short) interval, then change it again? I have a bottle of Duralube Advanced Tranny Treatment kicking around, but I'm afraid to even add that, don't even know what the benefit is supposed to be. Even w/o the particulates stuck to the walls of the tranny, I'm still thinking the detergent factor is enough to loosen crud or whatever and cause friction plates to slip and whatnot. So in other words I just need help w/this dilemma. Or maybe just a hug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 *hug* You're supposed to change your trans fluid every 50k. If your car has 160k on original fluid and you change it and something goes wrong, THE PROBLEM WAS ALREADY THERE, just being masked. For longest life, trans fluid should be changed every 50k, or even more if you drive hard/tow/live in mountains. The detergents are there to keep the transmission CLEAN and last longer, but if you leave it in forever, the fluid can no longer collect wear material as it should and it starts gunking crap up. Face it, Transmissions are filled with wear parts. The nicer you treat it and the cleaner you keep the fluid, the longer it will last. That's not to say changing it every day will do any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) LEARN SOMETHING: FLUSHING = PROBABLE FUTURE TRANSMISSION FAILURE, VIOLATION OF WARRANTY ON MANY NEW CARS PAN DROP AND REPLACE = CORRECT METHOD Most shops do a FLUSH because they have a machine they can hook up (much quicker and easier for them than a proper service) and change the fluid with. It does so under high pressure, which is what causes the issue. the high pressure shoves gunk around within the transmission, and they do not necessarily service the transmission filter or clean the pan. A pan drop removes the "loose" fluid and particles from the transmission that are in the pan area at the time of service, it also puts a new filter in, and allows the magnet to be cleaned. It also only replaces about 1/2 the transmission's fluid. If you have a failure after this.. it was about to fail 100% of the time... or you messed up. The worst I have done on my own fleet was change the fluid in a transmission for the first time at 150,000 miles, and run it another 60k, WITHOUT ISSUE. I have done the same service to multiple transmission without issue. I even did a Taurus transmission that had never seen service at 179,000 miles which had black and gritty fluid, but the car would only shift out of first at about 80mph or 9,000 rpm (ok, joke it would almost never shift) and it brought the bugger back to life and suddenly the car moved and ran flawlessly like a new transmission. Use COMMON SENSE and do not listen to backyard asshole who think they know what they are saying. transmissions are intended to be serviceable, like it or not. If you have stopped quivering yet, here's how i do transmission services: I have a vacuum siphon kit. I vacate the loose fluid in the pan via the dipstick. If you intend on at least starting to see what you can do for your car, you can always do the same and top the transmission back off without further service until you are satisfied with it. AND... LAST BUT NOT LEAST!!!! ADDITIVES ARE VIRTUALLY NEVER WORTHWHILE IN A TRANSMISSION, ENGINE OR ANYWHERE. a better quality fluid is better than any additive EVER will have the chance to dream of being. The only positive note i have seen is K&W "trans-x" but only as a pre-service cleaner the day before you service the transmission. Edited October 27, 2012 by Crazy K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Yeah I forgot to specify change via pan drop or the like, not by power flushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Yeah I forgot to specify change via pan drop or the like, not by power flushes. THIS! Speaking from experience. My 89 cutlass had brown fluid. It didn't shift right at all. After two fluid and filter changes 5000 miles apart, the problem was way less prevalent and the transmission lasted 10000+ more miles until I had a power flush done. 400 miles after a power flush the transmission ate itself. Complete catastrphic failure, the only thing left of my clutches was black gunk and metal shavings the size of fingernail clippings. If you do a proper fluid filter change and the thing dies, it was going to happen anyway! The pan drop will be messy but I would not be afraid to do it. Just don't go cheap on the fluid, buy yourself some quality stuff! Shouldn't cost much more anyway. Remember, going bottom dollar on everything in your car is not the best idea. A lot of times you get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Also, pull the dipstick, wipe it with a paper towel and post a pic of the fluid color. The color tells a lot. Smell it too. Does it have a pungeant burnt smell or just a stale smell similar to that of new fluid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) The pan drop will be messy.... + oil extractor = mess free I have a 30 year old version of this one: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_390306_390306 Edited October 27, 2012 by Crazy K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) the MC's first ever trans fluid change was at ~150K in 2005 or so with some pretty burnt looking and smelling fluid, up to 204K as of a few weeks ago, still kicking. used some cheap parts master fluid too. did a pan drop, longest part of the process was removing the old filter seal from the damn thing. wouldn't come out for quite some time, even with proper tools. a few months after the filter change, the rubber portion of the cooling lines rotted out and the entire contents of the transmission drained out into my driveway within a pretty short amount of time. somehow, this trans has been neglected to death, yet it's still going strong. i guess you could consider that a safe(ish) flush. the "mechanic in a bottle" crap is just that: crap. it will only possibly mask an issue, rather than fix it, assuming it doesn't cause other issues. EDIT: also, all automatic transmissions will fail with time. they have the unique property of needing the fluid to allow the clutch plates(and other friction areas) to hold torque, while providing lubrication to almost all other parts. this balance needs to be maintained, something regular fluid changes can accomplish. Edited October 27, 2012 by RobertISaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Dex VI is strongly recommended for these autos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 FWIW, my old '91 Euro had a little clunk or something like the TCC not releasing soon enough when coming to a stop. It wasn't very noticable to anyone but me, but it bugged me anyway. When I did a pan drop at ~160K miles, I added a quart of the Lucas oil Trans stuff. It quit the small issue sometime thereafter and the trans felt better then ever, all the way up to ~210K miles it had when I sold it. Last I knew it was still kicking around somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 LEARN SOMETHING: FLUSHING = PROBABLE FUTURE TRANSMISSION FAILURE, VIOLATION OF WARRANTY ON MANY NEW CARS PAN DROP AND REPLACE = CORRECT METHOD Most shops do a FLUSH because they have a machine they can hook up (much quicker and easier for them than a proper service) and change the fluid with. It does so under high pressure, which is what causes the issue. the high pressure shoves gunk around within the transmission, and they do not necessarily service the transmission filter or clean the pan. A pan drop removes the "loose" fluid and particles from the transmission that are in the pan area at the time of service, it also puts a new filter in, and allows the magnet to be cleaned. It also only replaces about 1/2 the transmission's fluid. If you have a failure after this.. it was about to fail 100% of the time... or you messed up. The worst I have done on my own fleet was change the fluid in a transmission for the first time at 150,000 miles, and run it another 60k, WITHOUT ISSUE. I have done the same service to multiple transmission without issue. I even did a Taurus transmission that had never seen service at 179,000 miles which had black and gritty fluid, but the car would only shift out of first at about 80mph or 9,000 rpm (ok, joke it would almost never shift) and it brought the bugger back to life and suddenly the car moved and ran flawlessly like a new transmission. Use COMMON SENSE and do not listen to backyard asshole who think they know what they are saying. transmissions are intended to be serviceable, like it or not. If you have stopped quivering yet, here's how i do transmission services: I have a vacuum siphon kit. I vacate the loose fluid in the pan via the dipstick. If you intend on at least starting to see what you can do for your car, you can always do the same and top the transmission back off without further service until you are satisfied with it. AND... LAST BUT NOT LEAST!!!! ADDITIVES ARE VIRTUALLY NEVER WORTHWHILE IN A TRANSMISSION, ENGINE OR ANYWHERE. a better quality fluid is better than any additive EVER will have the chance to dream of being. The only positive note i have seen is K&W "trans-x" but only as a pre-service cleaner the day before you service the transmission. 2nd to all+ i would add a magnet or two on the inside of the pan on the OPPOSITE the one already there if equipped. It was a thing my grandfather always did when working on vehicles and its probably not neccessary but its one of those things its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. All of the debris that gets knocked loose if ever will end up in the tranny filter anyways which is why you`d want to change them. Whoever is tell ing you not to change any of your fluids needs a kick in the ass, or foot to testicles. And for God sakes change the filter too, no point changing fluids if you arent going to change the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Did I not mention it? I add button Neodymium magnet next to the stock magnet in the transmission. Any transmission that received a repeat service following this had 90% of the debris on the neodymium and not the regular magnet. I wouldn't worry about it being on the opposite side, but if you do make sure it is in a clear area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 i only mention opposite to add coverage to the area, man you always end up answering more question with your replies than you know, thanks for all the info, its a pain keeping old cars on the road when your not ASE cert. only a car-guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Chances are I won't be doing anything w/regards to the tranny before I leave (for the 1300 mile one way trip), but it's great to get inputs. This is an exceptional forum, best I've seen yet. Anyway, I guess there's a slight possibility I could drain via dipstick (that thing seems kind of expensive for 50$). But it's not like I'm having a problem. Someone noticed for me it was approaching time for change due to color. I try to take notice of that myself. I'll try and get a picture taken of my fluid. Problem is there's this damned curfew in Monmouth County, NJ where I have the misfortune of living right now. O man a lot to take in. It wouldn't kill me to do an entire fluid/filter/magnet overhaul, but I'm just afraid. The last car that I myself operated long term (don't laugh, 205,000 miles before I scrapped it) was a 1989 Beretta. Never changed the tranny fluid. As you can see, I'm a believer in the notion that if it hasn't been changed, leave it alone. What can I tell you. Car ran exceptionally well up until the day it *stopped*. I just had a new exhaust system installed, and it stopped turning over (?). I parked it, eventually had it towed away. There were 2 repairs in the LIFE OF THE VEHICLE, crankshaft sensor, and heater core (that I did myself). Things like brakes, an alternator or perhaps 2, water pumps, tires, exhausts go in that time interval, as we all know. My Lumina hasn't been babied to say the least. It kind of rattles, makes weird noises occasionally. People say I'm nuts for driving it across country, but she's all I got. I put 94,000 miles on it since January of 2009, payed 500$ w/88,000 miles. I love these friggin cars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockTherapy Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 x2 on the pan drop and the neodymium magnets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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