briandors Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 P1441 is "Evap system purge during a non purge condition". This seems to be a rare DTC?? Didn't find much about it on the forums. Searching the web, I found that if the hoses look good, people seem to recommend replacing the evap purge solenoid which is near the coil pack I believe. 1997 Olds Cutlass Supreme with 62,xxx miles. Any advice? Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 (edited) My Cutlass had that problem when I first bought it. The purge solenoid had an open winding, found one in the junkyard for $5.00. That was 3 years ago. Count your blessings it is a '97, and gives the actual device giving the problem. On OBDI cars, the only error is QUAD DRIVER A FAIL...and it gives no clue as to what caused it. Took me 2 weeks to find out what stuff ran on Quad A. P1441 is "Evap system purge during a non purge condition". This seems to be a rare DTC?? Didn't find much about it on the forums. Searching the web, I found that if the hoses look good, people seem to recommend replacing the evap purge solenoid which is near the coil pack I believe. 1997 Olds Cutlass Supreme with 62,xxx miles. Any advice? Thanks Brian Edited September 26, 2012 by Galaxie500XL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Thanks. I love your convertible. I used to have a black 95 Cutlass convertible, but mine was a 3.1. Sold it to a friend at 153,xxx mi with the stipulation that when they're done with it, I get first dibs on buying it back. It's around 190,xxx now and still running well, but rust is becoming a big problem. Yea, those vague OBD-I errors weren't fun. This 97 is my uncle's sedan I'm fixing up. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I picked up a new evap purge solenoid (ACDelco) from Advance Auto Parts for about $30. It would have been about $22 from Amazon, but I didn't want to wait. It's a 10-15 min job, the solenoid is behind and slightly below the coil pack on a 1997 3.1 ( 3100 ) at the top rear of the engine. There is a red electrical connector, and then two hoses. The mounting seems to be a simple slide-off deal, mine needed slight coercion from a screwdriver and came right off. I've driven the car a good amount (more than the 3 x required to trip this code) and no light yet. Success! Don't I wish all car repairs were this easy. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgethis Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I picked up a new evap purge solenoid (ACDelco) from Advance Auto Parts for about $30. It would have been about $22 from Amazon, but I didn't want to wait. It's a 10-15 min job, the solenoid is behind and slightly below the coil pack on a 1997 3.1 ( 3100 ) at the top rear of the engine. There is a red electrical connector, and then two hoses. The mounting seems to be a simple slide-off deal, mine needed slight coercion from a screwdriver and came right off. I've driven the car a good amount (more than the 3 x required to trip this code) and no light yet. Success! Don't I wish all car repairs were this easy. Thanks Brian Hey make sure your hoses are put into the solenoid well. I have had the hoses "some how" slide out of the solenoid, which has thrown a Check Engine Light. I have taken electrical tape and wrapped the hose around the connector as to not let it slip out. Just passing on my prior experience with that. One of the fun moments I had is when I was back there, i found one of the two nuts were wedged between the block. That was fun trying to fish out without it falling into the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 After about 5 trips covering a total of 200-300 miles since replacing the solenoid, the SES light came back on. I checked the codes and it was P1441 again, and also "misfire cylinder 2" (i forget the code number for that one). I thought I had fixed the misfire cylinder 2 issue as well. I don't think/see how the two could be related -- but I am troubleshooting the misfire as well. I checked the plug and swapped the plug wire. I cleared the code last night and will see if it comes back. So far just one drive for about 17 miles, no code. I haven't done anything further with the P1441. The hoses and electrical connector are all tight and fully seated. Any thoughts? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 I'm not 100% sure, but I think I recall a bad gas cap can cause that as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 P1441 came back again. Alone, no misfire code this time. There is SO very little info on the web about this DTC. Plenty of people saying they tried a new gas cap and it didn't help, though that doesn't mean it's not possibly my issue. Other people recommend replacing the charcoal canister. Is that by the tank on this car? If cheap and easy I might try that next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 That's odd. Really the only way to set that code is if the purge solenoid is stuck open. There's no other way for the tank to get pulled into a vacuum, and that's what the ECM is looking at, if the EVAP system is being drawn into a vacuum when it's not supposed to. I would doubt gas cap, that would tend to set a leak code not a purge code. It is possible that the purge solenoid itself isn't bad but the wiring to it could be. The ECM pulses the solenoid to ground to create purge, if the control wire for the solenoid shorts to ground it could create this scenario. Maybe look in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I put a new $15 gas cap from the dealer on the car. Code has come back. I crawled under the rear of the car and checked all of the hoses at the tank, especially those leading to the charcoal canister, no problems there. This is getting frustrating..... Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sorry I didn't see this thread sooner. Granted there isn't misrouted vacuum hoses or shorted harness wires somewhere, the evap vacuum switch is bad and reading closed all the time so the ECM thinks it's purging all the time. This will set a P1441 every time. Replace that switch. It's right there by the coils and purge solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Jesse- Is this what you are referring to: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-214-567-Valve-Assembly/dp/B000C9N9FM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349869124&sr=8-1&keywords=214-567 If so, that is what I replaced already. Some places call it a evap purge solenoid. I think many people use "switch" and "solenoid" interchangeably. I am hoping you had a different part in mind.... Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 No, it's not the purge solenoid. There's a vacuum switch somewhere. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was right there by the purge. A quick look at the GM service manual also says it's right there by the purge as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hey. I'm not doubting you at all, just having a hard time finding that part --- not sure what the parts stores call it. They say there's a "vacuum check switch" and "vacuum control switch" and "emissions switch" and "egr vacuum switch" in their systems. Does it just say "vacuum switch" in the manual? Does the manual perhaps have a diagram that you could take a pic of and post here? Then I would know which part to take off, and can take it into the dealer. I really appreciate the help with this, it's the only forum I'm getting any help with the problem. If I can't figure it out soon I'll have to take it into a shop because I need it to pass the emission test pretty soon, because it's going into storage for a while and when it comes out will be too late (due to registration). Thanks again Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 Brian the part you are looking for is called the EVAP Vacuum Switch and should be connected to one of the vacuum lines coming off your new EVAP Purge Solenid. So follow the vacuum line and see if it leads to a part that looks sort of like a hockey puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 That helps a lot Ron. The one line coming off the purge solenoid goes forward and into the PCV, while the bottom line makes a bend and goes into what must be the vacuum switch. I still don't see this part listed online in ACdelco parts catalogs, advance auto, autozone, NAPA, etc. But now that I know what it looks like maybe I can point it out to the dealer parts guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 OK found it at Rock Auto and the AC Delco part # 212-358. They are calling it an Vapor Canister Purge Valve With a GM part #24506192. This part still may not be you problem and this vacuum switch can easily be tested off the car with an ohm meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I forgot to look at RockAuto, smart move. But I looked under the hood yesterday during lunch and the part had the number stamped right on it. I was itching to get this fixed so I can get the emissions test done and put it back in storage - so I went to the dealer and bought 24506192, just as you say. Installed it last night. This morning I already have a pending P1441. :-( Yes I should have tested the old part first. I'll EBay the new part and hopefully get some of my money back. Any other ideas before it goes to a shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Now I should mention. This valve has 3 ports on it. 2 on the sides are connected, third is just a rubber elbow that is pointing downwards, not connected to any hose. Is this how it's supposed to be? Could someone check? I couldn't see any disconnected line around. Thanks! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 That center port is only a vent hole to let outside air behind the diaphragm. If GM kept the same wire colors between 96 and 97 test to see if the Pink wire going to the vacuum switch has 12 volts with the ignition switch in the run position only. The Purple wire should go to the PCM. Follow the vacuum line from the vacuum switch all the way to the charcoal canister looking for holes, splits, kinks and rust holes. On my 96 this hose connects to a steel tube that follows the fuel lines back to in front of the gas tank. Then a rubber hose is connected to that steel tube and goes back to the charcoal canister. Where the rubber hose connected to the steel tube it had split along the top of the tube. I replaced both rubber hoses that connected to the charcoal canister with the proper size fuel hose and my EVAP problems went away. The cheap thin rubber tubing that came on the car was rotten inside and out so bad that bits of rubber clogged up the Purge Valve Solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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