4t65e HD High Performance shift button wiring '03 Monte Carlo SS

[rlj4214]

So I bought a shift knob from a GTP that has the High Performance shift button on it.

I'll be installing the HD version of the 4t65e when I install the engine that is now in process.

The PCM has the correct tables in it.

I'm wondering how to wire it up.

I would assume that it is an on off in the PCM harness.

Anybody have experience with this?

I would think it would not be that difficult but need some information on the task.

I was told that there was an actual "kit" at one time but have not found the source.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Update: So I tried to post this to the original as an answer but it's not letting me do that for some reason.

 

Anyway. I found what is apparently an answer here

http://www.midwest3800.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=241&sid=f2d6ed663762ca199a2742e77a443a9c

I have not tested this so I will not personally say it works, but it sure looks like a good answer.

Edited September 16, 2012 by rlj4214

[Andrew]

Those of us that have this 'feature' leave performance shift ON 24/7. It seems it would be easier for you to just tune your PCM with those tables for normal use.

 

97-00 GTP: performance shift mode must be selected to enable shift points and line pressure modifications. On all other PCMs, we program in the performance tables to run all the time unless otherwise requested.

[rlj4214]

Those of us that have this 'feature' leave performance shift ON 24/7. It seems it would be easier for you to just tune your PCM with those tables for normal use.

 

Thank you for your reply and yes i have modified the shift tables to suit me.

 

However, In my performance mode, it is not a necessarily comfortable shift in my opinion and I would like access to the two shift profiles. The car is turbocharged and I feel this is a valid question and modification.

 

Once again the question is how to wire it into the vehicle. It's two wires and an on off switch. Just not sure where to "tap in" so to speak.

[Euro]

We're supposed to leave it on 24/7?

[rlj4214]

Not in my opinion.

That of course was the thrust of my question.

My shift profiles for performance and "normal" are drastically different.

Performance will jar you a bit and is annoying when just cruising around.

Normal doesn't make the cut when you are standing on it under pressure.

[rlj4214]

Ah Ha! A possible answer.

 

Haven't fully checked it out but here it is.

 

http://www.midwest3800.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=241&sid=f2d6ed663762ca199a2742e77a443a9c

[rlj4214]

So I haven't checked this out but it has potential and shows logic.

 

http://www.midwest3800.com/forum/kb.php?mode=article&k=241&sid=f2d6ed663762ca199a2742e77a443a9c

[rlj4214]

Well it's a start BUT there are still some issues.

 

There may be an issue with the actual pressure sensors and switches on the transmission and the way it talks to the PCM

 

In a comparison between a 99 GP and an 03 MC Pin 21/C2 appears to be correct as far as activating the Performance Mode of the Transmission.

 

However, In looking at the pin outs that were sent to me to compare there are pressure switches that are not completely addressed on the Monte.

 

These switches will control the pressures in Performance mode.

 

So, What i need to find out for the harness that goes TO the PCM is where to locate the wiring FROM the transmission pressure switches on the HD Transmission and their routing.

 

What this means to me is that the pressure sensors on the HD trans need to be hooked in to really do this properly. The tables are there.

 

To me, it appears that depending on where the wiring harness from the Transmission actually connects to the main harness that I may need to check the compatibility for the harness sitting on the engine unless there is a separate attachment for those sensors and switches.

 

Pins 22 on C1 and pins 17, 57 on C2 are the issue with controlling the pressure in the transmission with reference to the torque via the sensor on pin 71 on C1 and pin 9 on C2 which are common to both.

 

Other than that it would appear that the pressure would be controlled directly as a function of the reading of table when the trans is put into Perf mode of course assuming that it would read from the correct table regardless of whether or not those sensors and switches are there and set the pressure simi-blindly or by some means that I have not arrived at.

 

I know that when i changed the pressure table for "normal" that the shift properties changed so there has to be something sensing that pressure request.

 

So to show my ignorance do you know anything about these pins and where they actually "hook up"?

 

It appears that the PCM is reading from 22, 71/C1 and 9/C2 processing and executing on pins 17, 57 /C2.

 

It would be great if somebody had a source for a wiring diagram concerning this and see if there is a definite correlation to year model of the HD transmission.

 

I'm thinking that the pin outs on an `O3 GP should be compared in order to determine the differences in the 3 Pin Outs. I was sent a pin out for a 99 GP and an 03 Monte.

 

GM is sorta quirky (read that as illogical) sometimes but i would think that they would keep same year model or year model group W bodies the same wouldn't they?

 

That's a really long winded way for me to try and reason out what else happens when Pin 21/C2 is activated for Perf mode.

 

Pins in question compared

99 GP to 03 MC Connector 1 (end view)

pin wire circuit description

22 PNK 1224 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch A Input - 22 Not Used

71 is the same on both and is Requested Torque Signal

 

Connector 2 (end view)

pin wire circuit description

9 is the same on both Delivered Torque Signal

17 RED 1226 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch C - 17 Not Used

21 DK BLU 1493 Normal / Performance Switch Input - 21 Not Used

57 DK BLU 1225 Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch B - 57 Not Used

 

I'm not sure the guy doing this harness extension for me wants me to share his info so for now I'll refrain, at least till he says it's OK. Not sure he wants to fool with another one.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Thanks, And away We go......

[Addicted to eaton]

Those of us that have this 'feature' leave performance shift ON 24/7. It seems it would be easier for you to just tune your PCM with those tables for normal use.

 

x5 always had it on in my 97... i love how it felt so firm and chrisp, my 2002, with 180k less miles shifts so... grandma ish lol

[rlj4214]

x5 always had it on in my 97... i love how it felt so firm and chrisp, my 2002, with 180k less miles shifts so... grandma ish lol

 

I like "grandmaish" for cruising. But when I play I want it to shift hard and RIGHT NOW or quicker. :-)

[rlj4214]

Talked to my trans guy and he sort of agrees that the button is not really needed with His transmission and the way the PCM is tuned.

My one remaining contention now is the downshift points.

I KNOW that I don't want the downshift points the same for the performance and for normal driving. That would be really annoying.

 

Not to be terribly stubborn, but I'm still looking.

[rlj4214]

The more I study this the more I disagree with not using the button.

Even if it is only to change shift points, that can be a big deal.

Sounds more and more to me like people just don't want to put out the effort to make it work, which is really looking more and more like a little research and a couple of wires to me.

[rlj4214]

The relevance of this is that I am switching to an HD transmission and he is accepting my reasoning for the switch.

 

Of course, I completely agree with him.

 

As far as the torque converter goes, well I will have to go strictly on advice given as I have no real clue how to make a judgement on stall speed.

 

Turning on the performance mode via a button was in a table I found in DHP but not in HP Tuners or Tuner C.A.T.S. there are 4 choices for "Type of Performance switch used to trigger the mode in the PCM."

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you have a 2003 model year then you can really use any 2003+ model year transmission. 2002 and earlier are electrically a bit different and can be converted but would be best to start with the correct matching year or year range to work with.

 

Performance shift has zero difference between the transmissions, it is simply a switch wired in to send a ground signal to the pcm that enables it or not, and in the tune you have to select performance shift being turned ON. Not all tuning software allows this.

 

Adding performance shift will definately give you the flexibility of having two different sets of shift tables so if that is what you are looking for it will accomplish that and you can leave the normal one stock and just work with the performance table for spirited driving.

 

For stall speed it really depends what engine setup you are going with. The stock supercharged application torque converters stall 2800-3000 rpm in the supercharged cars. Torque converters stall speed is a direct relation to engine torque output, the higher the output the looser the converter (higher the rpm)will be. Stock NA 3800s stall around 2600-2800. We typically use stock supercharged converters for all M90 builds up to about 350whp. For turbo builds we have custom converters built and stall speed set to match the combo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So that's where I am for now.

[rlj4214]

I found the table that lets me turn this on but it has a total of 5 settings 0 to 4.

This is to select switch type.

Does anybody know what the switch types are?

I assume that 0 turns it off but no clue as to the different types of switches.

[rlj4214]

Got this from the guy at Tuner C.A.T.S.

 

OK, I think this parameter is called 'Shift Pattern Input Type' in the OBDII

Tuner. The parameter specifies what input, if any, is used to determine the

shift pattern. It's located in the Transmission Parameters section of the

Constants table and has the following possible values:

 

0 = No switch

1 = Discrete switch

2 = Analog switch

3 = Class 2

4 = UART

[Imp558]

I know this is an old thread, but for those of us who are doing Gen II into Gen I, we can add the perf switch and ground pin C2 -33. Is it a momentary contact or off/on? I'm assuming (1=Discrete Switch) is momentary and (2+Analog) is off/on? There's on perf indicator control from a 7797 PCM to support a momentary switch but mine is set to 1, WTF?

[Imp558]

I got it working! For this PCM it's an off/on switch to ground. Now I get to tune the performace mode in!

[l67ss]

What pcm you running? Interested in perf shift switch for my 97 monte

I got it working! For this PCM it's an off/on switch to ground. Now I get to tune the performace mode in!

[Imp558]

My PCM is the 16227797, I think it may come down to what's programmed into it though. Mine has a '97 L67 GTP in it. The Riv, GS, and PAU may not have perf mode in them, I just don't know for sure. I have a bone stock version in .cal if you want me to post it. Then your switch is just C2-33 to ground to enable.