5 speed swap

[GTP091]

Got the new clutch today.  Sure makes the old unit look like busted junk, the throw-out bearing is completely ruined on the old clutch more than excessive play.  Not sure how the throwout bearing properly gets fitted to the pressure plate as yet but certain its well covered in the service manual I have as it talks mostly about changing the clutch. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by GTP091

[GTP091]

I;ve de-greased and cleaned the Mounts/brackets I have for this swap so now lets start a game of name that 284 mount, or more importantly where's it go??  You win the entire game if you can post exploded diagrams or a picture/s of an installed 284 that shows all these mount parts.  otherwise we'll take it 1 piece at a time.

 

First up this thing im going to call it big bracket # I...    No part # number stamped on it just a capital i.

 

this piece is a larger bracket piece that looks it should support the trans using the smaller mount bits and then itself be mounted to one of the rubber mounts to the subframe; only thing is neither of the rubber mount bolts line up to i directly, my guess of course.  seems the smaller mount bit # 10127626 will bolt to it but can face two directions.

[GTP091]

Smaller mount bit Part # stamped on is 10127527

 

This piece is very solid it's certainty designed to hold weight from the trans itself but is one of the smaller mount bits i referenced above. There's one more similar to it but different shape.  I have a feeling it goes between the transaxle and one of the two brackets.

[GTP091]

Smaller mount bit Part # stamped on it is 10127526.

 

  This piece is also very solid it's certainly designed to hold weight from the trans itself but is the last of the smaller mount bits i referenced above.  I have a feeling it goes between bracket 'I' and the transaxle.  The two bolt holes on it line up to two of the threaded bolt holes on bracket 'I'. 

[GTP091]

After a beer I've decided this is the intermediate shaft to engine bracket.  Although im surprised its made of aluminum? Please tell me if Im wrong and I will blame the beer.  the bolt holes line up perfectly to the bolt holes of the intermediate shaft and the shape of the other end seems it should match the engine as well.

[White93z34]

I'll dig through my pictures. I'm sure I have one showing how everything is supposed to look installed.

[Imp558]

If you google those numbers I bet there's a blow apart diagram out there.

[White93z34]

I know I have diagrams in my parts manuals, they aren't the best, but they exist.

[GTP091]

If you google those numbers I bet there's a blow apart diagram out there.

I certainly gave that a go, lots of images of lady undergarments and other things came up but no diagrams. Gm parts direct gave me two very small diagrams but nothing of any use to show what goes where.

[GTP091]

I'll dig through my pictures. I'm sure I have one showing how everything is supposed to look installed.

That would be super awesome. Thanks

[19Cutlass94]

I have a brand new input shaft seal I’ll sell you. Cost me $300. Also, that bracket looks like the one for a 282. I had to custom make a bracket for my 284.

[GTP091]

Ill have to pass on the input seal. I’m sure a transmission or machine shop could alter the case so I could use a common size for less if it ever came to that

[Imp558]

Ill have to pass on the input seal. I’m sure a transmission or machine shop could alter the case so I could use a common size for less if it ever came to that

That's a really good idea

[crazyd]

Apologies for the wall-o-text, but I got started writing and didn't stop for over an hour and a half.  There's no TL;DR version.  I've been the unwitting victim of over a decade of experiences with the 284, and I would liken it to having an autistic child - moments of brilliance and joy tempered by fear of what's coming next.  So here we go.

 

Something I've discovered about high-mileage 284's.  If you put it together and you get a weird side-to-side shimmy under acceleration, and at 154k I can almost guarantee you will, it is most likely because of worn output shaft bearings.  I'm currently on my 3rd 284 in my car and every one of them did it.  Initially I blamed the axles as anyone would, but even with brand-new axles it still did it.  What happens is the output shaft bearings in the differential wear beyond tolerance, and allow excessive movement in the output shafts. This manifests as an acceleration shimmy and an output shaft seal leak, usually on the driver's side.  I don't know what the solution to this is.  I bought up a bunch of output shaft seals a few years ago on closeout at RockAuto and had an idea to fill the empty space in the back of it with an epoxy, like JB Weld, that it might strengthen them enough to smooth it out.  But I haven't tried it yet.  If anyone else has experienced this and/or found a solution to it I'd love to hear it.  My other idea was to flamespray the stub axle's bearing surface to enlarge it.

 

The most important thing to know about 284's is that they are made of unobtanium.  GM did not allow anybody at the dealership service depts to disassemble them for repair, they were R&R only.  Taking one apart isn't that complicated, but you do have to have some highly specialized (and likely non-existent in 2018) tools to put one back together, including of all things an oven.  The part you remove to get at the detents in the bellhousing supposedly has to be destroyed in order to remove it, and replaced during rebuild.  So, there's that.

 

They were built at a Getrag production line in SC, which is where they were supposed to be sent for repair, and in 2003 all the remaining service parts they had were auctioned off on eBay.  In 2007 I spoke to the last guy who knew anything about them at the SC factory and he couldn't believe there were still any on the road.  At the time, technically mine wasn't.

 

I don't know what kind of magic the wizards at Getrag used to come up with the 284, but it was an engineering marvel in its day that was largely overlooked.  However, its two main weak points are those 3rd-gear syncros and the output shaft bearings, plus the fact that you weren't supposed to take one apart outside the SC factory in the 90's.

 

Point is, don't buy one of these expecting to be able to rebuild it like any other transaxle.  The one advantage a 282 has over a 284 is rebuildability.  Maybe in 2018 with 3D printers that can make titanium parts out of electronic 0s and 1s we can make some of the pieces necessary to do it, but I don't know of anyone who has attempted it yet.  Me, I've got 1 good spare in case I ever have problems with the one I've got now.

 

One other thing I didn't see mentioned, is check its mount.  They don't make replacements anymore and you're going to need it.  It's like a foot on the bottom of the case.  Hopefully it wasn't damaged in the process of removing the 284 from the subframe.  They usually split in half.  Make sure you can't pull the top half away from the bottom half.

[crazyd]

GTP091, on 05 Apr 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:GTP091, on 05 Apr 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

Smaller mount bit Part # stamped on is 10127527

 

This piece is very solid it's certainty designed to hold weight from the trans itself but is one of the smaller mount bits i referenced above. There's one more similar to it but different shape.  I have a feeling it goes between the transaxle and one of the two brackets.

 

These two smaller cast iron mounts go to the compressor I think.  I don't recall anything like that related to the 284.  The stamped steel & aluminum parts are mounting brackets for the output end of the intermediate shaft.

[White93z34]

My understanding is the mount is interchangeable with a 282 one, that you can still buy New-Aftermarket

 

This might be the wrong place for discussion... perhaps if we made a new thread as this topic is of great interest to me.

 

I have a broken 284 - bad 3rd syncro/blocker ring and I'd LOVE to break it down. My neighbour works at a CNC machine shop so in theory I can get whatever I need made.

 

my biggest concern is the speciality tools needed to split the case and put it back together. If I can't do that, then its a useless endeavour even if I can get new blocker rings made.

 

The procedure in the service manual makes it seem extremely intimidating.

 

Though again, just say the word (or do it) and we can create a thread for brainstorming about rebuilding/repairing these transaxles.

[55trucker]

^ My '91 factory manual does not go into the process of rebuilding the 284, there's absolutely no tutorial on how to do so, just re & re.

[crazyd]

They went into greater detail about it in 92+ SMs, Steve.  I'm all in favor of a separate thread for this, and three years ago there was one started here http://www.w-body.com/topic/54311-getrag-284-serviceability by Mr. Dead Thread, but it went nowhere and true to its name was dead in three months.  I'll start a new one.

[GTP091]

The inputshaft seal is a no go. The output shaft seals and bearings are still available. I was going to replace just for peace of mind however the tulips that are still in there are rock solid absolutely no wiggle or jiggle. If it craters and I can't fix 282 it is. I will snarf up another 284 if I can of course.

[19Cutlass94]

Just an FYI, all the input shaft seals I’ve seen fail, haven’t been from the seal itself. There’s a small o-ring on the outside that gets hard and cracks. Replace that with maybe some silicone, and you’ll be fine. You’ll have to split the case on it. Which is fairly easy to do.

[GTP091]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:27 PM, 19Cutlass94 said:

Just an FYI, all the input shaft seals I’ve seen fail, haven’t been from the seal itself. There’s a small o-ring on the outside that gets hard and cracks. Replace that with maybe some silicone, and you’ll be fine. You’ll have to split the case on it. Which is fairly easy to do.

I'll check em out. These are not listed on rockauto weird as just being orings they should be readily available.

[White93z34]

totally forgot about those pictures:

 

[Mach 5]

you can still get the bearings.. you don't destroy the detent cover upon removing it if... you pry from the outside. easy the fix and I just rtv the outside upon re-install. you can use a torch and a gear puller to remove some of the parts. you can disassemble the case with a press. I have an lsd unit in my trans to support the power to both wheels it is possible. the major issue is getting synchros and misc parts made for these. Mr Nunzi needs to get on this!!! hehe!

[GTP091]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:07 PM, White93z34 said:

totally forgot about those pictures:

 

That's a good start. Thanks for putting them up.

[GTP091]

I got the engine cradle out of my parts car and into the garage. Was quite a feat. Used a backhoe to lift the car up and away and lower the engine cradle into my truck. Borrowed a crane lift from a friend and it’s now sitting in my garage. Going to take lots of pictures and then begin tearing it all down. I’m going to use this engine and the 284 from the Calgary car. If course it will all need to be cleaned, resealed, painted, have all the nice bits swapped over etc. from My existing engine once it’s out. Will use the original as a template for headers down the road. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by GTP091