Gsxperience Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I was wondering if anyone has succesfully added 2nd gear start in a late 90's monte/lumina. I have a '99 LTZ with a 3800/4t60 and would like to add it. I know there is a thread devoted to this already but i could not follow it to save my life. So any insite would be appriciated. Thanks Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockTherapy Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 there's a writeup here somewhere, it's really just a matter or splicing the switch into the trans harness, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 i want to say Ken wrote it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ....but i could not follow it to save my life. i want to say Ken wrote it... Explains a lot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 So nobody tried this in a 1.5? Ive read through other threads and if im reading them right, its just the first shift solenoid that gets grounded out when you flip the switch. Ive looked at the diagrams and I know the light green/white wire is the wire from the pcm to the 1st-to-2nd shift solenoid. But with everything ive read on this forum, it seems to be a blue wire on every other make/model that people have added the switch to. Ive considered using a jumper wire from the green/white wire to a ground, and then I could try and drive and see if it leaves from second, but I also dont want to try this and end up blowing or ruining something. So if anyone has any knowledge in this area and could tell me if this is a good idea or not, ease chime in. My biggest reason for doing this is because first gear in my trans is slipping pretty bad. Every other gear runs out smooth except first, and im just trying to squeeze a little more time out of this tranny untli after my wedding in august. I figure if its never in the gear thats slipping, its probably less likely to take a dump on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 it's not done via disabling the solenoids. it's done with a signal to the PCM to request that 1st gear be skipped due to a secondary set of shift tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 a 99 monte carlo with a 3800 would be pushed with a 4t65e. I have no idea if that can be done, nor do i know if it can be done to my 96 GP which has it wired stock, but is using a wrong year PCM with an engine swap. BETTER IDEA: you need more traction and you have a 4t65e? investigate LSD options for your differential instead. second gear start is bringing a knife to a gun fight by comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) a 99 monte carlo with a 3800 would be pushed with a 4t65e. I have no idea if that can be done, nor do i know if it can be done to my 96 GP which has it wired stock, but is using a wrong year PCM with an engine swap. . When I did a filter change, the pan said 4t60-e. Im pretty sure ive read it was other places as well but maybe I need to start investigating. Also, traction isnt the issue. 1st gear slips and im just trying to hold out on blowing it quiet yet. Edit: just looked into it more and see it is supposed to be the 65, so are the pans between the 4t60 and 4t65 interchangeable? Because Im certain my trans pan is stamped 4t60-e Edited June 24, 2012 by Gsxperience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I know idiots have touched cars.... I've seen strange stuff, as have many of us who are observant. yes, your car may have a used j/y replacement pan on it from a 4t60e, as they are the same pan. In fact the stamping of indication of 65 vs 60 ceased right about when the 65 came out, such that all 96+ or 97+ pans are not identified upon. Though I know of cars with the wrong transmission swapped in with usually dismal results... I should also point out that 4t60 and 4t60e are different transmissions so don't confuse them... The best way to determine if you have a 4t65e vs 4t60e is if it has a vacuum modulator on the front(60e), or an electrical plug that faces the drivers side of the car (65e) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Good to know. It has the electrical connector so I guess it is a 65e. Glad I never went to replace it or parts on it or Id probably have 4t60e parts for sale right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 just to be sure: 65e http://www.thrashercharged.com/images/trans_modifier/on-trans.JPG 60e http://www.charlietranny.com/4T60E%20FRONT%20OF%20VEHICLE%20VIEW.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Why need 2nd gear start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Why need 2nd gear start? My biggest reason for doing this is because first gear in my trans is slipping pretty bad Also, traction isnt the issue. 1st gear slips and im just trying to hold out on blowing it quiet yet. 3rd time: First gear slips. Im trying to hold out on blowing first gear completely until I have the money saved for a new trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Can't you put the shifter in "2" when you start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 that will just limit shifting to 1st and 2nd though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 that will just limit shifting to 1st and 2nd though. Ah.. I thought that'd limit it to 2nd only.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wait the tire are slipping on the ground or the actually trans is slipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Trans is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Um then put a trans in it. Starting in 2nd gear alll the time is just going to piss it off more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Um then put a trans in it. Starting in 2nd gear alll the time is just going to piss it off more Um, I will. After I pay for my wedding in August, like I said earlier. It only slips from first to second right now. Starting in second would skip using the broken part... Im not tranmissions specialist but I can figure that out. And seeing as im not trying to jerryrig it but instead just add an option that alot of cars already had, it seemed like a good way to keep it on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 took a look at the 96 GP wiring diagrams, since that is the most likely application to have it, and even then it wasn't present from the factory. i take it 2GS was dropped when OBD2 was phased in. anyways, that means what you will be doing to lockout 1st gear WILL be a hack... grab a rocker/toggle switch, clip the 1-2 shift solenoid wire (should be the only light green wire in the trans connector) with enough room to fix it when you replace the transmission. whenever you have the switch in the off position, you'll have gears 2 and 3, but 1 and 4 will be disabled. when it shifts out of 2nd, or at least is at a high enough speed where it won't attempt to drop into 1st, throw the switch into the enable position, you now have 2, 3 and 4. don't say i didn't warn you that the PCM isn't going to like this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 wait... it only slips while shifting from first to second gear? Can you describe it as more like it has a delayed shift??? Could be a broken spring in the accumulator, which is serviceable in the bottom of the pan. <-- at least it would be a last ditch effort you can do yourself over paying big $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxperience Posted June 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 I wouldnt call it delayed because that seems more to me like to high of RPM. It usually starts to grab and go, but if I give it to much throttle or Im going up the hill down the road from me, the rpms jump but it doesnt accel. anymore to match it. If I let off a little and roll back into rhe throttle slowly, it pulls again and i start moving again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 interesting thread... the 99 ltz and z34 are deff 4t65e's and have the 3.29 gear ratio. as for 2gs being pulled with obd2... my mothers 2000 auto camaro with the 4l65e has 2gs called SGS. i wonder if someone pulled its wire diagram if it would match? also one thing that might help is installing a pin in the pcm connector for performance shift! when i did my 3800 swap i added this pin and have it waiting at the c100 fire wall plug encase i want to add this later. if you have a tuner or someone who tunes they can change all the settings for the perf shift function and you can use it however you want.... you could also lower or raise shift points so it gets to 2nd faster and stays there longer. if your local i'd be willing to give you a hand with it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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