2Tired Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I have a 91 Cutlass Supreme with a 3.1 V6.., I recently had a No-Start problem with the car.., and did a lot of testing of all sensors, wiring and components.., for which I eventually replaced the Fuel Injectors as two were well beyond specifications. In the process of testing all of the wiring for shorts from all components to the ECM.., I also removed and reseated the Prom Module to ensure the connections were good. (power was disconnected previously and anti-static precautions exercised) After completing all of this work.., the car started perfectly and now runs great. My problem is.., I have to take the car through emission testing.., (AirCare) and while I was running the car.., I pushed the Trip/Odometer 'Select' button.., to change the display from the Trip readout to the Odometer.., to see the total Kilometers.., and it displayed " ERROR ". Now I have read that this Digital Cluster will do this when the Odometer turns over to 200,000 kms. Usually we just have the display on the Trip readout.., so seeing this " ERROR " was a new development. I read that you can still display the "Mileage".., if you hit the Metric/Imperial Button.., which I did.., and it did display the Mileage.., which was 125,800 miles.., so if you convert that to Kilometers.., at 1.6 conversion.., that puts the Kilometers at about 201,000. SO...., is this actually TRUE that this Digital Instrument Cluster.., reads " ERROR ".., when it hits 200,000 kms...????? I find this Very Strange if it is in fact accurate. In addition.., I have read that this can occurr if the cluster has been tampered with.., or if the ECM has been changed.., well.., neither has happened.., this is the original cluster that has not been tampered with.., wouldn't know what or how to tinker with the cluster.., and the vehicle still has the original ECM as it had before this " ERROR " problem surfaced.., so no funny business in either area. As I mentioned.., the car now starts up right away.., idles and runs better than it has in years.., and basically runs great now..!! I don't really have any other concerns at this point.., other than the emission testing station needing to read the Kilometers of the vehicle when I take it in for testing. Is there a way to correct this " ERROR " readout..., without sending or taking it somewhere for repair..??? Or.., should i just leave it on the Mileage Display.., and tell the emission testing station that this is a cronic problem with this vehicle.., and tell them to convert the Mileage readout to Kilometers..? Otherwise.., this display will always be left on the Trip Display anyway.., other than just going for emission testing. Any information or suggestions on this topic would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm not sure how your milage is recorded on the registration or emissions form, but due to the age of our 1994 Cutlass Supreme, the mileage is no longer recorder. Where the milage would be noted, it simply reads EXEMPT. I will be following this thread to also find your answer, as I will be dealing with the same issue soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 changing the ECM will NOT cause this... mileage is stored in the cluster. don't suppose you can see what all segments are available for the odometer? if i had to guess, i'd say that the "2" wouldn't actually fit in place of the "1", which would cause the error. not sure why GM didn't spend the extra 20 cents to make it possible to read to 1 million, but that's my explanation. the uplevel digi clusters (UB3) can read to 400,000, since they have a little indicator that pops up when you exceed 200,000, and then it starts over at 0 again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Can the UB3 clusters be reprogrammed to ZERO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 yes. however, no documentation exists outside of MAYBE GM themselves(and this is probably the kind of thing they pitch after a while anyways) on how to do it. so you would need to have some significant electronics experience to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tired Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thanks for the replies..., RobertISaar..., I agree.., changing the ECM will not cause this problem.., just read that elsewhere on the internet.., still have original ECM and Prom so that didn't make sense.., also read this may occur if tampering with the cluster.., however.., don't know how that's possible either.., cluster has not been out of the car in this timeframe. I did take a close look at the Odometer Display with a bright flashlight.., specifically the 1st Position...., AND..., it is only capable of displaying a " 1 ". Can you believe that...?!?! I pushed the Metric/Imperial button.., and a number '1' clearly only displays in that position.., it is only wide enough for a "1".., it is NOT another Full Digit or ZERO.., which of course would be capable of any other digit.., as would have been logical. Anyway.., such as it is.., but this Odometer is in fact NOT CAPABLE of Displaying 200,000 Kilometers.., OR Miles for that matter..., isn't that ridiculous...!! I guess the AirCare emission folks will have to do a conversion from the mileage display.., there isn't much I can do about this by the looks of it. Why would this display not just start back at 000,000..., instead of displaying " Error "..., so that it is still semi-functional...? Oh well.., like I mentioned before.., we always have this odometer display showing the Trip meter.., so it doesn't really matter.., unless we still have this car when it hits 200,000 miles.., which I guess is not out of the realm of possibility.., something to keep in mind I guess. I have a question in this regard..., is it possible to install the other Digital Cluster into this car..? As intimated.., I have the three display cluster.., as shown below. 1991 Cutlass Supreme SL Is the cluster below the UB3..? 1988 Cutlass Supreme International If it is.., can this cluster be installed in my 91 Cutlass..?? There is an '88 Cutlass International at the local wreckers with that cluster.., just wondering if I can somehow install it.., without too much trouble..? The main issue I see.., is that the transmission gear position indicator in my car is under the speed display in the bottom of the cluster.., and there is not such an indicator on the (UB3) cluster in the '88 Cutlass at the wreckers.., it has a stick shifter with indicator in the center console.., so that would be an issue.., other than obvious additional connections / modifications for the additional guages. Any suggestions on this topic..? Other than this odometer issue.., my Cutlass is now running great.., touch wood. For others how may have a " No Start " issue.., where the car does not start one day.., and may have been running poorly previously.., I would point to the Fuel Injectors.., test them to see if they are within specification.., in my case.., I believe that this was the cause of my No Start problem. I have read that if you have a bad Injector.., it may shut down the Pulse Signal from the ECM all together.., I had two Fuel Injectors that were well out of spec.., they are supposed to be @ 12.2 ohms.., one injector was 18.6 and the second was 32.4 ohms. I replaced them all.., and the car now runs really well. I did do " a lot " of other testing on the ignition components.., sensors and wiring.., but nothing else came up lame.., other than the Fuel Injectors. My Injectors were 17084888.., which apparently fail quite frequently (according to Injector outlets).., but the car did just turn 200,000 kms.., so I guess their time was due. Of course.., giving the Throttle Body, IAS and EGR a good cleaning as well as Re-Sealing the Plenum with New Gaskets and Sealant probably helped the car to run much better also. I also had two bad Ignition Wires.., which made the car run rough and sound like it was gargling after I did get it running.., replaced the wires.., and it now runs really well. Just thought I'd add my two cents about repairing my No Start problem. Suggestions on the Cluster Swap would be welcome.., thanks for all of the input...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 people HAVE swapped to the digital UB3 cluster before, not only for the additional guages, but their reliability is SO much better than the base digital display. i do seem to remember a thread coming up recently about it. i guess it really depends on how much wiring you want to do. you'll also have to deal with the cluster having the incorrect mileage, and you would probably be hard pressed to find someone who already knows how to correct it. as for the shifter indicator.... that's not something most people have a problem with, since most are either already console shift or convert to it. not sure what to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Tired Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I expect that changing to the better cluster would take significant research.., when it comes to correctly matching sensors / sending values to accomodate all of the guages on the replacement cluster. In my situation.., if I were to change to this cluster from the '88 Cutlass in our local wreckers.., I would have no Gear Indicator.., as that car utilizes the center console shifter.., and the gear indicator is next to the shifter on the center console.., and not in the cluster itself...., being that my car has the gear shifter on the steering column.., and the original cluster has the gear indicator in the cluster..., I would also have to transplant the gear indicator from the original cluster.., so there is a proper gear indicator. I don't know what GM could possibly have been thinking (or not thinking) about.., by not making this odometer capable of displaying 999,999.., instead of 199,999....., it is absolutely absurd...!! If people take proper care of their vehicle.., there is no reason they can't expect a vehicle to exceed 199,999 Miles 'or' Kilometers..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Here's a link to the digi cluster swap I'm involved with... http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/53113-Digi-UB3-adapter/page5 this links directly to page 5 of the thread, so note that there is a lot more previous info (pages 1-4). Just thought you might want to see what I'm going thru to put the Digi in our 1994. Nate knows mass about this swap! Real cool guy and super helpful! edit; post #15 Special Note and Service Bullitin: If you own an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme from 1988 to 1993 equipped with a standard 3 point/guage (Fuel, Speedometer, and Odometer only) florescent digital display dash panel, it is recommended that you upgrade to the full all guage (Digital Florescent or Analog) due to several issues with the 3 guage panels including the main controller chip also known as a "Smart Driver" failing over time. edit; post #30 John, I can get you pictures if you like. You need the connector from a 89 to 91 cutlass that already has a digi ub3 or has the analog cluster. A base cluster will not have the same type of connector Edited June 5, 2012 by 1988PhantomFE3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Here's another thread that might be right on for what you want. It's about the adapters, but alot of info here too http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/15025-ub3-and-z34-cluster-adapters-pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 yes. however, no documentation exists outside of MAYBE GM themselves(and this is probably the kind of thing they pitch after a while anyways) on how to do it. so you would need to have some significant electronics experience to do so. Well if it rolls back to 0 after 400000, why not power the cluster, hook the VSS up to the RPM signal on a computer fan and let it turn up. Since a computer fan turns at around 4000 RPMs, and the cluster registers 4000 pulses per mile, it would essentially take 1 minute to roll one mile. The speed would probably read around 60 MPH as well. Now if you're at 200k and want to acheive 0, yes it would take a while...just short of 140 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 well, it might not roll back to 0 after 400K.... it could do the same error routine that is happening with the base cluster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Very true. However, if you're looking to swap a base digital for a UB3, finding a mileage lower than your car and using the fan method to bring the mileage up to match your car should theoretically work. The RPM sensor in a computer fan works virtually the same way as the speed sensors in our cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 cluster applies small amount of current to the 4K PPM circuit, ECM switches to ground at a rate proportional to speed. anything that can do the same will work. i just wouldn't apply much more than 14 volts and have a decent limit on current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwhizard Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Regarding the odometer error over 200,000 kilometers (or miles) we have a solution for this. We have odometer display chips that will allow mileage (kms) up to 999,999. The only thing is that reading will be in whole numbers rather than displaying the 10ths of a mile. example reading of say 201666.8 will be truncated to just 201666. Not a big deal as trip odometer still displays the tenths. For more details visit http://www.mrwhizard.com or call 888-803-8523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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