xtremerevolution Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 I've started a bit of a side business building subwoofer boxes over on CruzeTalk.com as a service to the community, so I figured I'd post here too in case anyone is interested. If anyone is looking to have a subwoofer box built, let me know. I build them on the side, and they're what an experienced car audio enthusiast would call "high end." Pre-fabbed boxes are generally junk. The sealed boxes always leak immediately or within a year, and don't hold up to any real power, and the ported ones are typically tuned very high for SPL as "one note wonder" boxes and generally sound like crap. I guess you could call these SQ subs, designed specifically for the sub being used and for the car in which it will be installed. I also design sub boxes for free if anyone needs one. I use software that simulates in-cab response given a set of measurements and applies it to the raw frequency response calculated using TS parameters. The boxes are all built with 3/4" MDF, are guaranteed against structural failure or defect for the life of the car. All but the absolute largest boxes come with 4-point routed bracing. All subs come with a double thick baffle for a flush mount, use gold plated screw-type terminals, and use mineral wool as fill (same stuff that's used in wall acoustic panels). My pricing is what I'd call "cheap" for a custom sub box of this caliber. They take anywhere from 5 to 8 hours to build, not including the time it takes to design. I charge $175 plus shipping for a single sub box, and $200 plus shipping for a dual sub box, 10 or 12" sealed. I can provide pricing quotes for other size subs or ported boxes on a case by case basis. Custom boxes like this will typically run $300-$600 at a respectable and experienced car audio shop. Again, design is free, I only charge for the construction of the boxes, and believe me when I say that once materials, tools, and electricity are factored in, I'm not really making a whole lot of money for the amount of time I spend on these. In any case, here are some pictures of my work: Single IDQ15 V2 for a Chevy Cruze 4x IDQ12 V3 for a Chevy Cruze 2x IDQ10 V3 for a Chevy Cruze 2x IDQ12 V3 for a Scion tC - with black shag fur! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 ever thought about doing some fiberglass ones just to try and shave some weight? those are obviously some awesome boxes but how much does one weigh with the speakers? I guess I am asking will you build them to make money if there is a demand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 such intricate design.... is it really that important to baffle to that extreme to keep response linear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 yes the faceplate is the most important piece of the box. if the box isn't dead solid on the face you will lose sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) ever thought about doing some fiberglass ones just to try and shave some weight? those are obviously some awesome boxes but how much does one weigh with the speakers? I guess I am asking will you build them to make money if there is a demand? I've thought about it, but I have no experience with fiberglass. It is significantly more time consuming to build from what I've seen. Most of my orders are on CruzeTalk.com, and so far I've had one order per week come in for the past 4 weeks (just got paid for a box for an Alpine Type-R 8" sub an hour ago). Fiberglass resin is also a bit more messy and toxic. It's almost a joy to work with MDF. Both my router and my sliding miter saw have shop vac attachments. Absolutely no dust leaves my router while I'm working, while barely a small amount leaves the miter saw. I use the table saw outside for my initial cuts, so it's all very clean. I'll be thinking about it more as these orders keep coming in. I could naturally charge quite a bit more for custom fiberglass boxes. Weight? LOL. That quad 12" sub box weighed 80lbs. A Dual 10/12" sub box I got a quote for on Sunday weighed 60lbs. Figure about 25-30lbs per "normal" 10/12" sub. That quad 12" box probably tips the scale at 175-200lbs loaded. You need at least two strong people to put it in your trunk, lol. But hey, he wanted loud and clean, and he sure as hell got it. such intricate design.... is it really that important to baffle to that extreme to keep response linear? YES. You want absolutely zero flex in the box walls at any frequency between 20hz and 150hz. That baffle needs to be solid so all of that sound is produced from the sub. If you'll notice, the bracing I use also connects to the baffle, so not only is it double thick (or one 3/4" and one 1/2" in the IDQ15 box), but it's also braced to the rest of the box. These aren't your typical Best Buy sub boxes, lol. These are designed to hold the most powerful subs you can get your hands on and last you the life of your car. yes the faceplate is the most important piece of the box. if the box isn't dead solid on the face you will lose sound. Precisely. Edited May 10, 2012 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Garage Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Wow those look great! Well done! I make my own boxes but if I didn't i'd definitely be interested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Is it just the size of the box that makes them different for fitting each car? My Son has a '94 Mustang GT Convertible, would it take a special box for that? I know his trunk opening is small and the one he has in there now is not the best. The cousins were rewiring it just a few weeks ago, it's a dual box. I'm just wondering if the boxes are designed for sound & performance or for the size of the trunk? Also who do you ship thru? All that weight must run up a fat shipping bill, but I'd pay it for my Son's smiles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Is it just the size of the box that makes them different for fitting each car? My Son has a '94 Mustang GT Convertible, would it take a special box for that? I know his trunk opening is small and the one he has in there now is not the best. The cousins were rewiring it just a few weeks ago, it's a dual box. I'm just wondering if the boxes are designed for sound & performance or for the size of the trunk? Also who do you ship thru? All that weight must run up a fat shipping bill, but I'd pay it for my Son's smiles! The size of the box is designed around the specific subs being used for performance. You need the correct airspace inside the box to get the correct frequency response, tonal accuracy, and transient response. The box is half of what you will hear; the other half being the quality of the subs. A poorly designed box (especially vented/ported ones) will make the subs sound terrible. I could build a box, but I'd need to know the maximum dimensions of what the box could be and what subs are being used. I would also need to know what types of music your son listens to primarily, so I can build the box around that as well. It may simply be that the subwoofers he's using will not serve his purposes, but I'll be able to provide some insight once you give me more information. Is this dual box ported or sealed? Would you be able to give me the dimensions of the box itself so I can figure out why it doesn't sound as good as it should? I can calculate the internal airspace and get a frequency response simulation made to show you exactly where your problematic points are and how they can be improved or fixed. I also need to know what amplifier is being used. I ship through FedEx ground with insurance. I haven't had to charge more than $75 for shipping yet (and that was for a Dual 12" box to San Francisco (I'm in Chicago), which includes my own time and costs for packaging. Shipping included, you'd be paying double for a box of this quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I guess I could just order that box with all that internal bracing and have it shipped for a lot cheaper because I would do the fiberglass myself and just have it made with 1/4" boards for everything but the face. that be possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Wow those look great! Well done! I make my own boxes but if I didn't i'd definitely be interested! Thanks! I take quite a bit of pride in these boxes. It typically takes me 6-8 hours to build one, and I pay very close attention to detail. The buddy of mine that got the shag box came over to have a listen with this subs, so we mounted them and put them in my car and drove around. Words cannot describe how awesome these sounded. These IDQ12s have a much higher cone area than any other 12" sub of this class. Combined with a very low moving mass, these sounded so tight, accurate, and clean that it was jaw-dropping. Should have seen the look of amazement on my buddy's face as we listened. Couldn't turn them up too high since they still need to be broken in and the glue on the voice coil needs to go through a few heat cycles to cure, but man did they sound great. Truly chest pounding, musical, and brillant at the same time. It's been a while since I heard a V3 IDQ driver, and this reminded me that nothing out there compares to these subs in pure sound quality at their price point. I took some pictures of the insides so you can see how closely I cut it with the bracing. I was able to freely slide a sheet of paper underneath the sub, so none of it will be touching. That, and I checked the gap before I put the foam seal strips in, which space out the sub a bit more. Edited May 11, 2012 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I guess I could just order that box with all that internal bracing and have it shipped for a lot cheaper because I would do the fiberglass myself and just have it made with 1/4" boards for everything but the face. that be possible? I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Would what be possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 like a lightened version of one of those boxes pictured above made with 1/4" thick MDF for the internal bracing and everything besides the faceplate. then I fiberglass the inside myself so you don't have to mess with that part. I like the look of the box and the design for the bracing so I would be interested possibly if 1/4" could be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 like a lightened version of one of those boxes pictured above made with 1/4" thick MDF for the internal bracing and everything besides the faceplate. then I fiberglass the inside myself so you don't have to mess with that part. I like the look of the box and the design for the bracing so I would be interested possibly if 1/4" could be used. Let me see if I understand you. You want me to make the entire box out of 1/4" MDF with the exception of the front baffle. You would then fiberglass the inside for rigidity (and I mean full on fiberglass, not just resin), while still having an extra thick baffle to mount the sub and recess. Is that correct? If so, there's one problem with that. I have no idea where to even find 1/4" MDF, and even if I found it, it would be a huge PITA to work with as it won't clamp easily with butt joints without splitting or breaking. 1/2" MDF is as small as I'd be able to go and keep my sanity. Bracing would also be 1/2" MDF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 ya they sell it at any hardware store. you can get it in smaller sheets too with one side primered white or bare mdf. I was just going to make a box out of cardboard originally but 1/4" would be really light too. and nobody would even need to know because the sound would be exactly the same. obviously cardboard would not look as flat and potentially sag if you soak the resin too much at first. but if you don't work with 1/4" mdf then that's cool. yeah sorry, 1/2" would be too thick so nevermind. it would defeat the purpose of saving weight so I will just go with my plan to use cardboard and make my own. thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Yeah...I don't think 1/4" MDF will hold up to this very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Holy clamps batman. I would love an opportunity to learn some of your skills. You remember seeing the box I built, I need all the help I can get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Holy clamps batman. I would love an opportunity to learn some of your skills. You remember seeing the box I built, I need all the help I can get Read through my thread here to see step by step pictures of a couple of boxes I made: http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/36-electronics/6206-xtremerevolutions-subwoofer-boxes.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 so you ship them fully assembled? what about in pieces? I can clamp and glue it all myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) so you ship them fully assembled? what about in pieces? I can clamp and glue it all myself. Always fully assembled and unless the customer wants to carpet it himself, I also carpet it. I could ship it in pieces, but then what's the point? Home Depot can also make the cuts for you if you needed pieces cut. The only thing I could do that they can't is all of the routing for the baffle and bracing. I wouldn't be able to send you pieces for the bracing as I always have to do some trimming as I'm putting the box together. There's no way to get 100% perfect measurements and cuts for the bracing, so I usually trim them on my sliding miter saw as I'm building it to make sure everything is perfect and level. For example, 3/4" MDF isn't really 3/4", and 1/2" MDF isn't really 1/2", but when you need bracing to fit perfectly in your box, you need a pretty precise cut. My point is it can't really be measured easily. The only thing I could cut and measure precisely and be able to ship out is the baffle. That wouldn't be difficult at all. 3/4" MDF is actually .775: 1/2" MDF is actually .528: Edited May 11, 2012 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hey Xtreme- Is there ANY chance of me getting a decent sounding box in my girlfriends '03 explorer sport trac? It would have to fit under the back seat, passenger side. The tough thing is the floor isn't totally flat, it has a hump in it. I haven't looked that closely but it looks like 6-8 inches of height and maybe a foot of width and depth. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Hey Xtreme- Is there ANY chance of me getting a decent sounding box in my girlfriends '03 explorer sport trac? It would have to fit under the back seat, passenger side. The tough thing is the floor isn't totally flat, it has a hump in it. I haven't looked that closely but it looks like 6-8 inches of height and maybe a foot of width and depth. Any ideas? Get me the specs and I can probably build it, lol. I need to know the max dimensions. I see several other boxes other people have made online and it doesn't look all that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Sounds good. I'm thinking about surprising her for her birthday in september, one of these days I need to get some measurements and see what we can squeeze under there. I know there's a way to make it sound good, a customer today brought in a '00 silverado extended cab and he had "something" mounted under the rear seat. It was MORE than loud enough for what she needs. I just wish I knew what size he was running. I'm hoping to run a fairly small amp as well, maybe 250 watts or so. That way I can run 8-gauge and hide things a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Sounds good. I'm thinking about surprising her for her birthday in september, one of these days I need to get some measurements and see what we can squeeze under there. I know there's a way to make it sound good, a customer today brought in a '00 silverado extended cab and he had "something" mounted under the rear seat. It was MORE than loud enough for what she needs. I just wish I knew what size he was running. I'm hoping to run a fairly small amp as well, maybe 250 watts or so. That way I can run 8-gauge and hide things a little better. Oh, there are a LOT of subs you can run down there that I can recommend that will get to some respectable levels. If you're on a bit of a budget though, there are quite a few boxes out there that you could get for cheaper than what I'd charge to build one. Just giving you the heads up. The cheapest box I've built so far was $125 plus shipping, and that was for a single 8" Alpine sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hm... I wouldn't mind buying a prefab box, there was someone on the sport trac forums that apparently made a decent under seat box. $130+ shipping. Still have to pup for the sub of course. I may just buy a preloaded one, I know she's no where near as picky as I am. Looks like I can get a decent loaded box with a "decent" sub for around $150-$200 on ebay. Then I just have to find an inexpensive pawn shop amp and buy a wal-mart wiring kit. Plus a hi-lo adapter and I'll be all set. More than when she needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Hm... I wouldn't mind buying a prefab box, there was someone on the sport trac forums that apparently made a decent under seat box. $130+ shipping. Still have to pup for the sub of course. I may just buy a preloaded one, I know she's no where near as picky as I am. Looks like I can get a decent loaded box with a "decent" sub for around $150-$200 on ebay. Then I just have to find an inexpensive pawn shop amp and buy a wal-mart wiring kit. Plus a hi-lo adapter and I'll be all set. More than when she needs. Yeah. As much as I want to sell you a box, I simply don't see a benefit for her. These are high end boxes for those who want a box built like a tank that will last them beyond the price of the car, and who want ultimate sound quality or SPL. If all she wants is a bit more bass, you don't need one of my boxes to do that, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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