2002 Pontiac Grand Prix - Front RIGHT Brake Line.

[Stevo]

Not sure if I posted this wrong but. Are there any special tricks to replacing the front right (passenger side) brake line? Doing this without having to take apart nearly the whole damn car forward of the firewall?

[RobertISaar]

easiest way for this specific situation would be to cut the line as far back as you can reach from each end, rather than attempt to repair where the actual problem is. just too much crap in the way to do it easily. you'll be doing lots of tube bending though.

[Stevo]

There is a point where all the lines come straight down in front of the driver side of the firewall and make a 90* turn. There is a considerable amount of corrosion here.

 

The line went in a different area. I suspect that before long all the lines will require replacement.

 

The main difficulty for the line mentioned above is that there is a considerable amount of 'conduit and plumbing' which needs to be navigated around. I have installed the line but I have to confess that it is not pretty. The line had to be straightened out by hand during a certain part of the installation in order to get it in around everything. It THEN had to be rebent in place by hand to go around the exhaust manifold and not contact any moving parts like the rack.

 

The line will have to be replaced because I think that some portions were bent to near yield, compromising the integrity of the line. Time will tell.

 

I was wondering if someone had an idea of what had to be disconnected to get this thing in... what a pain in the arse for one simple task.

[Cutlass350]

If it's anything like my car, forget about replacing that brake line and using the same routing as the factory without a lot of work and effort. You'd have to drop the subframe and disconnect the rack and pinion. On a lift at a garage with a dealer mechanic, it's not horrible, but expect at least $200-$300+ extra for the subframe dropping and lifting.

 

Plus, GM may still have the OEM line for your car. GM had all but one of all of the brake lines for my car (rear right). Note, they are not cheap - by any means!

 

One issue is that GM uses an integral flex hose in the lines. But, if you want, you can use your original brake lines and cut off and splice after that flex hose connection.

 

If you are going to replace the brake line, then I suggest running the brake line up top, along the top of the firewall, and then run it down the right fender. That's how Ford does it for the Fox (85-93) Mustangs. See the last picture to see what I'm talking about. You can kinda see the right front and the rear brake lines right below the hinge (on the picture on the left) in the engine bay, right at the firewall. Ford uses a brake line union. I on the rear brake line, I have a small black proportioning valve because I have the '95 Cobra brakes (and ABS) on my '86 Mustang.

 

 

If you do the above, make very sure:

1) You use some thermal sleeve/wrap light I did (I cut mine and used tie wraps).

 

2) Secure the brake line to the firewall very well in many places. You do not want the brake line to vibrate and flex - and create stress points. Home Depot has some steel rubber lined hose clamps. They sell them near the electrical switches. It's a good idea to lightly put a few tie wraps around that rubber portion to prevent it from wiggling off over the years. See the 2nd to last picture to see what I'm talking about.

 

Original brake line:

 

 

New replacement brake line from GM (after being coated with POR-15):

 

 

 

Thermal wrap I used to further protect the brake line:

 

 

Thermal wrap installed on the new brake line:

 

 

Installed new brake line - view #1:

 

 

Installed new brake line - view #2:

 

 

 

Hose clamps that I have used, near center, near the top of the picture:

NOTE: For the clamp use below, the clamps are used to limit/modify the movement of the brake hose when the wheel is fully turned to prevent the hose from rubbing against the wider front tires. As shown, for this specific use, the clamps are not tight, nor are they suppose to be tight.

For a hard brake line, you want the hose clamps *tight* against the hard brake line.

 

 

 

Shows the routing of the right and rear brake lines in a "Fox" Mustang. Note the two brake lines below the hood hing on the left side of the picture. One has a brake line union, the other a prop valve (for the rear brakes - one line for both rear brakes in a Fox Mustang):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Example of a rubber lined hose clamp: Note, get the correct size as needed.

KMC Stampings COL Series Aluminum Loop Hose Clamp, Rubber Cushion, 3/8" Clamp ID, 1/2" Band Width, 1/32" Band Thickness

http://www.amazon.com/KMC-Stampings-Aluminum-Cushion-Thickness/dp/B005LW4P58

 

 

 

BTW, when I did the engine-swap/car-restore on my 2000 olds, I ended up replacing *100%* of the brake lines. And I mean *100%*! That includes the ones between the MC and the ABS, even though they looked okay.

 

The right front brake line leaked as soon as I touched it. So, I replaced all of the front brake lines.

After I finished the engine, a side brake line went. Argg! And, the right rear didn't look good. So, I decided that my life wasn't worth risking on the 10+ year old POS GM quailty brake lines. And, I replaced every remaining brake line in the car.

 

I used POR-15 on every brake line.

I covered the right front with thermal sleeves to protect it from the heat of the exhaust manifold. From GM, the right-front brake line does come thermal wrap in the center portion of the brake line. But, IMHO, GM was way too limited in the sections they protected with thermal wrap. Also, GM didn't have any additional protection for where the brake line goes behind the steering shaft - and gets covered in dirt, snow, salt, rain, and moisture.

For the right rear, I used fuel line to further protect the brake line that also had POR-15 on it. It's in a position that gets snow/salt sitting on it during the winter.

 

 

 

Good Luck!

 

Edited April 24, 2012 by Cutlass350

[Cutlass350]

Quick picture of the original side and rear brake lines from my 2000 Olds below.

To get an idea of the size/length of the brake lines, next to the brake lines, at the upper right, are the ABS unit, and MC.

 

Edited April 24, 2012 by Cutlass350

[Stevo]

Thank you for this information.

 

I feared that this was the proper installation method. A lot of of disconnection required.

[White93z34]

I just did this on a 3100 century. I removed the entire master to get at it. i removed the entire line whole. I had the subframe dropped down pretty far in the back.

 

bent it back towards the middle of the car on both sides so i could pull it out through the engine bay then bent it back, and used it for a template so i could make the new one from that one. then did the same on the new one to install. was not too bad, but sure don't wanna do it again.

[Cutlass350]

Thank you for this information.

I feared that this was the proper installation method. A lot of of disconnection required.

 

If you route the brake line like the Mustang does, it would first go sideways to the driver's-side fender, then backwards to to the firewall, then behind the booster, then along the firewall, then down the edge of the passenger-side front fender.

 

If you do it that way, I strongly suggest using fuel-line (or vacuum-line) with a split in it (use a knife, etc) to put over the brake line.

 

 

Regardless of how you route the brake-line, be aware/careful to avoid the rubbing/abrasion of the brake-line against any metal or body part (e.g. firewall, fender). That's another advantage of using either fuel-line or the thermal-wrap.

 

You do not want a metal clamp rubbing/reacting (metallurgically) with the metal brake line.

To hold down the brake line, regardless of how you route it, use either:

A) Plastic hose clamps

Metal clamps with rubber.

 

 

To route the brake-line in the OEM route on my 2000 Olds, it would involve removing the ABS, MC, and the Booster. The booster "twists" off when you release the metal latch on the back of the booster. Also, removing the downpipe and cat would be a very good idea. IMHO, the hard part would be dropping the sub-frame and getting the pinch-bolt off/on the steering shaft coupler.

 

The rack and steering-shaft/coupler both have a flat spot on them. So, set the wheels straight, keep the steering wheel locked, and you won't have to worry about the steering wheel being offset when you put the steering-shaft and coupler back onto the rack.

 

NOTE: If you have stability control, then the car has a steering wheel angle sensor. That can be damaged if you just blindly poke the steering shaft in/out. My steering shaft never moved down at all. But, I also didn't go yanking down on it.

 

 

To bleed the brakes, just bleed normally.

I use a dual-diaphragm pressure bleeder (K&D) (was ~$250) with the proper GM MC vacuum bleed cap (was ~$35). That's very similar to how the dealers and mechanics do it. In fact, many use that exact setup. It makes bleeding fast and pretty fool-proof.

 

For people that race circle-track (etc) on some weekends, they bleed their brakes after every race. Well, the good/smart racers do. Even the sub $100 pressure bleeders do a good job.

 

 

OH YEA!!

Label your brake lines when you remove them from the ABS!

For what ever ********ing reason (uhm, cost), the fittings on ABS unit are all basically the same size - WTF!! So, it would be very easy to swap two brake-lines (e.g. both fronts, or both rears, for my car the MC<->ABS lines wouldn't lay correctly if swapped). If swap brake lines to the ABS then badness! Your ABS/TC will freak-out if it gets activated because if the raer lines are swapped, the ABS will be trying to reduce (/control) the "left rear braking" and the "right rear braking" will go down to zilch while the left-rear braking keeps locking up.

So again, label your brake lines when you remove them from the ABS!

I use masking tape and write on it with a marker - simple and it works.

 

 

I got my brake lines, and many orig GM parts, from:

http://parts.nalleygmc.com/

Note: They also have many of the car diagrams on line - including the brake-line diagrams.

 

I have only VERY GOOD things to say about Nalley GMC!

Of course, GM parts prices are what they are - that's not the dealer's fault.

 

 

Good Luck!

Edited April 25, 2012 by Cutlass350

[Cutlass350]

BTW, in case you do want to route the right-front brake-line like it's done on a Fox Mustang, the picture below shows the brake-lines against the firewall better than my picture.

 

 

Good Luck!