Galaxie500XL Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 Finally found the source of the power steering leak on my '95 LQ1 Cutlass, it's definitely the pressure hose.. A couple of questions, I've searched the archives, and this looks like a fairly unpleasant job... 1. It looks like the combination of having an LQ1 and an automatic transmission makes this a tougher job..anyone found a good way to get to the fittings on the rack short of following the FSM, and dropping the subframe? I saw the recommendation of cutting the line, and using a socket, but it really doesn't look like I'd be able to get a 18mm socket and wrench on that without dropping the subframe.. 2. Would it make sense while I'm struggling to replace the pressure hose, to go ahead and replace the return hose at the same time? Any suggestions or tricks on how to best go about replacing these lines is very much appreciated... Quote
GOT2B GM Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 I was able to use a cut down 18mm wrench to remove it. Quote
White93z34 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 I done this before and TBH its WAY easier to just drop the rear of the subframe (disconnect steering shaft pinch bolt though!!!!!! 11mm) my original was kinda rusty and I cut the line and used a 18mm socket to get at it. Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Posted February 10, 2012 Good suggestions...I may be lucky on getting the fitting loose, as I had the transmission rebuilt last summer, and the shop would have had to disconnect the lines while doing that work...in fact, I strongly suspect that's where the leak began, them pulling and tugging on the line. I have jackstands, and a hydraulic floor jack...so all I need to do is loosen the front subframe bolts, remove the rear ones, and make sure to disconnect the steering shaft first? That doesn't sound so bad... Quote
Schurkey Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 2. Would it make sense while I'm struggling to replace the pressure hose, to go ahead and replace the return hose at the same time? Absolutely. The hose cold-flows under the clamps; the connection becomes loose not because the clamp loosened, but because the hose wall thickness is reduced. The next thing that happens is that it dribbles, followed shortly after by popping off completely especially if the weather turns nasty cold. Use new POWER STEERING hose, (most fuel hose is NOT SUITABLE due to temperature and chemical compatibility issues) use GOOD clamps (not the cheapass common worm-drive Breeze style), and don't over-tighten. Some folks double-clamp the hose. That shouldn't be needed...but that doesn't stop an extremist. While you're in there, be sure the power steering "cooler" (a steel tube that zig-zags around the cradle) isn't kinked or dented/restricted. Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 I have jackstands, and a hydraulic floor jack...so all I need to do is loosen the front subframe bolts, remove the rear ones, and make sure to disconnect the steering shaft first? That doesn't sound so bad... Yep, that's pretty much how I did it. I remember it did take up an entire afternoon, maybe some of the evening, and also my subframe didn't want to drop much due to the exhaust so I had to remove a bunch of exhaust hangers. So I would say it's "take all day" unpleasant, but not "take all week" unpleasant! I got my replacement power steering line from O'Reillys. They sold me the entire complete assembly with the hose pre-crimped onto metal lines. It's not the cheapest way to go, but probably saves a bit of time. Quote
Schurkey Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 I got my replacement power steering line from O'Reillys. They sold me the entire complete assembly with the hose pre-crimped onto metal lines. It's not the cheapest way to go, but probably saves a bit of time. Pressure or return hose??? Pressure hoses are typically sold specific to the vehicle; factory-crimped onto metal ends is the normal way to buy them. Return hoses are typically sold in bulk, either by the box of ten or twenty feet, or "by-the-foot" from a big spool. The hose is cut to fit and then installer-clamped to the existing metal tubes. Low pressure (but high heat) so no need for fancy crimps. If you bought a return hose factory-crimped to metal ends--I'd be surprised. Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted February 10, 2012 Report Posted February 10, 2012 Pressure hose. I thought we were talking about a leaky pressure hose here. My apologies if I misunderstood! Yeah, my return hose is clamped, but I didn't have to replace it. Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Posted February 10, 2012 The pressure hose is the one leaking, but I'm figuring to replace both while I'm at it. As an extra reward, my power steering pulley broke today...and the flange broke using the removal tool...so now I've got a pump with a ring of metal, and no pulley on it. Fortunately, I still had my old NV7 pump...noisy, but at least the car can be driven home...had to replace the pump in the parking lot at work. Any ideas on how to get the remains of the pulley off of the shaft when the flange is broken off? Also, anyone know where I can find a decent NV7 (variable effort steering) pump WITH the EVO pintle included? They were rare to begin with, only used in 94-95 on LQ1 Grand Prix, and Cutlass Supremes...pretty hard to find. Quote
GTP091 Posted February 24, 2012 Report Posted February 24, 2012 Just before I started a new thread I did a search and found you have exactly the same issue as I do. Went to start it up and it pissed all the fluid out. I put the car up on jack stands and it looks like my high pressure PS line is leaking I think where the lower crimp is. the loom cover hides it well, bastard... I know it's the high pressure as there's fluid everywhere. Looks like we'll both be doing this fix at the same time. Luckily (or unluckily) I just had the subframe dropped about 8 mths ago to do the coilovers and suspension overhaul. Should be easy enough to drop the frame on it and replace. I guess we'll see when we get in there? There's no way I'm going to try to replace without dropping the frame. I can barely get a light to shine up there. Think the dealer will still have the lines?? rockauto does. Quote
Addicted To Boost Posted February 24, 2012 Report Posted February 24, 2012 I just removed my airbox and did it from above. It's hard to access with an auto, so I just cut the line and put an 18mm socket on it. That method was MUCH quicker than trying to fight with a combination wrench on it. Quote
GTP091 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Posted February 25, 2012 I just removed my airbox and did it from above. It's hard to access with an auto, so I just cut the line and put an 18mm socket on it. That method was MUCH quicker than trying to fight with a combination wrench on it. I came to the same conclusion after lowering the subframe tonight. there is just no room to get anything in there. I couldn't even get in to cut the line and stick a socket on from below. CAI is coming off tomorrow night after that it's a clear shot with a 18mm wrench. My only question for you guys now is which is the high pressure line? I tried to trace it with my fingers but it goes behind the rack and is to far to reach. I hooked a wire around it to follow it but a clamp is in the way. I'm thinking the top line closest to the steering shaft but my service manual shows it's the lower on a 3.1 (3.4 view is not labelled-thanks GM) and they should be the same I would think. Quote
GTP091 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Posted February 25, 2012 on another note GM dealer said the line is discontinued and was listed @ $300. I told him roackauto had it for $35 + shipping in ACdelco, he didn't have much to say other than 'well that's good'. Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Posted February 25, 2012 I got mine from Advance Auto..it was $18.99 for the pressure hose...but then again, the NV7 pressure hose is slightly different on the pump end than the standard hose. on another note GM dealer said the line is discontinued and was listed @ $300. I told him roackauto had it for $35 + shipping in ACdelco, he didn't have much to say other than 'well that's good'. Quote
GTP091 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Posted February 26, 2012 I got mine from Advance Auto..it was $18.99 for the pressure hose...but then again, the NV7 pressure hose is slightly different on the pump end than the standard hose. I cut the line off with a dremel cutoff disc using the extension from underneath. hacksaw blade would have taken a full day with the angle it is. The best angle I had still left a 1" nub of pipe sticking out which will definitely get in the way of putting a socket on there. I'll try and dremel the rest off from above when I try again. The leak was a pinhole in the rubber hose. It looks like a bulge when bent; maybe the cords broke and wore a soft spot and eventually busted; that's what im going with anyway. A wrench will not work, to tight and bad angle from above and below. it'll just strip and then i'll be really f#$%^ed. Once I did get a get bite with a 18mm wrench but just about shit myself trying to loosen it. no go. soaked in pb blaster overnight. I'll buy a 18mm socket tomorrow and try it again. all my socket sets skip 18mm? WTF is that about. how's yours coming along ? Mike Quote
GTP091 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Success! I dremeled the nub off from below to fit the socket I bought over to find there wasn't enough room to ratchet and get good leverage; it wouldn't budge and couldn't get a snipe on either. I put a ratcheting wrench on it hooked the y of a breaker bar on after taking the socket end off and smacked the end of that with a rubber mallet. The last smack I gave it felt like it slipped off and rounded the bolt but it actually broke loose. Long live PB blaster! curse sentence I used when I couldn't get it off with a ratchet 'fuck fuckity fuck fuck' curse sentence I used when I got it off and threw it 'fuck you, you fuckin fuck!' The return line got in the way of getting a good swing with the ratchet I only had about 1.5" swing on the wrench just enough. Not sure yet if I'll change the return yet or not. I probably should but I tried to loosen it and it was just as tight as the high pressure line. Some things should be real tight... others not so much. Edited February 27, 2012 by GTP091 Quote
Red Nightmare Posted March 5, 2012 Report Posted March 5, 2012 Dropping the subframe sounds really daunting but it is not as bad as it sounds. Just have a nice breaker or impact wrench for the subframe bolts and also have a jack (even safer would be a jack stand) to stabilize the subframe, not letting it drop more than 3 inches (I just did two inches to be safe) Replacing the pressure line is not complex, just a pain in the ass with having to jack up the car enough to work under it, dropping the subframe, and then supposedly the PS line is really tight. When I did mine cause of a PS leak, mine was just loose. Not sure how that happened. On my 3.4, it is auto and has ABS so getting to the line from above was out of the question. Once you are down there, don't forget to check out the other crap under the car to see what else might need serviced. Might as well at that point. Just things like making sure the rest of the steering components look good and all bolts are tight. Supposedly you are suppose to remove the exhaust system for this whole process but that may not be necessary. It gets in the way but working around it might be easier than removing it, especially cause exhaust bolts tend to break when removed. Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Posted March 13, 2012 Unfortunately, I've been out of town working, in Oroville, Washington, and near Yuma, AZ...going to try next weekend, if my company doesn't send me out of town... Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Posted May 10, 2012 Well, I FINALLY started replacing my hose--I spent only 8 days home the entire month of April...and found THE trick to replacing the pressure hose on an LQ1. You only need a $3.00 18mm crow-foot open-end flare wrench, $2.89 at Northern Tool and Equipment. Take the two bolts out of the exhaust downpipe, use a jackstand, or floor jack to raise the exhaust up as far as it can go against the floorboard, and you BARELY have enough room to turn it a little at a time, but it's doable. Tool part number at Northern is 2542815. Quote
tornado_735 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Posted May 10, 2012 Those crows feet are fuckin handy I tell ya... Quote
Red Nightmare Posted May 15, 2012 Report Posted May 15, 2012 galaxie - did you have to lower the subframe at all? Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Posted May 23, 2012 Sorry to be so slow to reply to this...completely missed it. No, I didn't have to lower the subframe at all. I will warn you, though, it's a VERY tight fit, small hands are a good thing. galaxie - did you have to lower the subframe at all? Quote
GnatGoSplat Posted May 23, 2012 Report Posted May 23, 2012 I wonder if it's better to lower the subframe? Granted, my memory is hazy, but I lowered the subframe to do this and I don't remember any issue or frustration with getting tools where I needed them. Quote
Galaxie500XL Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Posted May 23, 2012 I can see plusses and minuses both ways. On the one hand, dropping the subframe gains you more space...on the other hand, some of our cars are over 20 years old, and I worry about either breaking things, or finding something that's stuck...for me personally, I'd prefer not to take things apart unless absolutely necessary...but yes, I do think overall, it would be easier to drop the subframe to do the work. At the same time, though, if you found yourself somewhere, say a parking lot, where it wasn't an option to drop the frame where the car sits, well, at least there's another way. Quote
Schurkey Posted March 6, 2015 Report Posted March 6, 2015 It looks like I'll be into this on my '92 as soon as I get back from The Left Coast. That is to say, the PS better hold up long enough for one more long trip! I guess I'll pack along a gallon of PS fluid and see what happens. The car blows PS fluid all over the ground, but only when it's cold out. I have it up on a lift, ran the engine for twenty minutes while I spun the steering wheel and held it at full right and left lock. No fresh leakage (I cleaned off the undercarriage so I could see fresh fluid trails.) My suspicion is that my return hose is restricted which builds-up excess pressure until the fluid thins out again. I tried adding PS fluid from a bottle that was in the car overnight, and the stuff would hardly pour. My '93 did the same thing about two years ago. I took it to a shop, they removed the "cooler" and just routed PS return hose from rack to reservoir. I gave that about two weeks, then put the "cooler" back in, using sections of the new hose and fuel-injection clamps to attach it. I didn't realize that the original return hose is a factory-crimped hose-and-tubing affair. I found a replacement return hose "with cooler" at the local NAPA. They've actually got two in stock. PN 72873 http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/P-S-Return-Hose-OEM/_/R-PSK72873_0371888837 The price is VERY right--only $27 plus tax. I suppose I should shove in a pressure hose as long as I'm in there. Another $24. NAPA # NPS 72378 http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Power-Steering-Pressure-Hose-OEM/_/R-PSK72378_0371870510 At this point, I'm actually thinking of replacing the whole rack. I have a minor leak at the left bellows. I am NOT looking forward to this. Quote
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