xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 why spend anything at all on it if you are using an aluminum charge wire? just crush the car for scrap. if you can't spend a measily $100 on some actual copper wire. aluminum wire is worthless no matter how thick it is. you just don't use it for wire no matter what. 8 gauge copper is better than that. Measly $100? You act as if we're made of $100 bills. 8 gauge copper is not better than 0/1 gauge aluminum. Better check your facts before you come back into this thread spewing more bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Alright, so remember how I connected the charger last night? Voltage before connecting was 12.4V. I left the charger on all night, and in the morning when I pulled it off, it was between 13.6 and 13.7. However, the little dial on the charger still showed that the battery was only half full. I just checked the voltage again, and now its at 12.37V, so I put the charger back on it. Possible bad battery? Its an Autozone Duralast Gold battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 How old is it? Sounds to me like it's on the older side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 How old is it? Sounds to me like it's on the older side. Bob bought it new when he did the engine swap, so fall of 2010. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Having your alternator tested isn't always fool-proof. I've seen plenty of those machines test obviously bad (ie not charging at all) alternators and pass them. Off-the-car testing is convenient and almost worthless. It is WAY better to have the ENTIRE starting/charging power team tested. why spot welds are bad I am not sure, unless they rusted away? 1. Steel is a crappy conductor. 2. There's very little surface area in a spot-weld. Sure, there's lots of little spot welds, but as the car ages some of them break. Overall, it can be a high-resistance ground path. Alright, so remember how I connected the charger last night? Voltage before connecting was 12.4V. I left the charger on all night, and in the morning when I pulled it off, it was between 13.6 and 13.7. However, the little dial on the charger still showed that the battery was only half full. I just checked the voltage again, and now its at 12.37V, so I put the charger back on it. Possible bad battery? Its an Autozone Duralast Gold battery. As said above, ideally you would have the ENTIRE starting/charging power team tested. Starter draw during cranking, battery capacity, alternator output to begin with. You've already tested AC ripple, but not voltage drop from batt to starter + and - circuit; alternator to battery + and - circuit, and alternator to under-hood power distribution + and - circuits. "Could" be a defective battery. "Could" be a parasitic battery drain through the electrical system. Is your DVOM capable of reading amps (0--10 should be sufficient to verify a parasitic drain.) "Could" be a parasitic battery drain across the dirty/slimy battery case. Clean the battery with water mixed with a bit of detergent and baking soda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Off-the-car testing is convenient and almost worthless. It is WAY better to have the ENTIRE starting/charging power team tested. 1. Steel is a crappy conductor. 2. There's very little surface area in a spot-weld. Sure, there's lots of little spot welds, but as the car ages some of them break. Overall, it can be a high-resistance ground path. As said above, ideally you would have the ENTIRE starting/charging power team tested. Starter draw during cranking, battery capacity, alternator output to begin with. You've already tested AC ripple, but not voltage drop from batt to starter + and - circuit; alternator to battery + and - circuit, and alternator to under-hood power distribution + and - circuits. "Could" be a defective battery. "Could" be a parasitic battery drain through the electrical system. Is your DVOM capable of reading amps (0--10 should be sufficient to verify a parasitic drain.) "Could" be a parasitic battery drain across the dirty/slimy battery case. Clean the battery with water mixed with a bit of detergent and baking soda. How exactly do I test alternator output? Why do I need to test voltage drop from battery to starter +? I have the factory wire going from the alternator to the starter, in addition to another copper 4 gauge wire that I ran to the starter additionally. I mean, I guess I can check if its a big deal, but I would think it should be fine. How do I test the starter - circuit? Where is the power distribution - circuit? I feel like I'm a bit lost here. I'm not 100% sure where I should be testing the leads on the DMM I have for some of those tests you mentioned. If its not too much trouble, could you list them in a numbered list and tell me exactly where to test the leads? I can get those tests done ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 don't start a thread about having an electrical gremlin when you used an aluminum charge wire then get upset when you get told you should use copper. aluminum is just the wrong material to use for the application period. I don't care who here said it works, if you used it you got duped. and considering every single car here is grounded through the body, well I guess we really don't have a choice unless you want to waste money that apparently you don't have running a lead from the trunk back to the block for the ground which is wrong too. that would be opposite of what you should do. high current grounds should be no longer than 18". I would like to see someone break a spot weld before drilling out the weld because at that point it is solid steel. steel is a better conductor than aluminum so better re think that one before any testing on your car is even necessary. use your brain not your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 don't start a thread about having an electrical gremlin when you used an aluminum charge wire then get upset when you get told you should use copper. aluminum is just the wrong material to use for the application period. I don't care who here said it works, if you used it you got duped. and considering every single car here is grounded through the body, well I guess we really don't have a choice unless you want to waste money that apparently you don't have running a lead from the trunk back to the block for the ground which is wrong too. that would be opposite of what you should do. high current grounds should be no longer than 18". I would like to see someone break a spot weld before drilling out the weld because at that point it is solid steel. steel is a better conductor than aluminum so better re think that one before any testing on your car is even necessary. use your brain not your back. You don't give up, do you? Again, back up your facts or get out. Read the bolded. Conclusion At this point you might be thinking that CCA wire is bad and shouldn't be used, but that's not the case. We've done extensive testing on CCA wire for several manufacturers and our results show that it can work very well for all but the highest current applications. Because of the additional resistance you simply can't substitute the same gauge CCA wire for the traditional gauge copper wire. Our strong recommendation would be to simply use one gauge larger size of the CCA cable than the copper cable. That being said, if you compensate for the increased resistance in the CCA cable by going to the next larger gauge size, you'll probably end up with equal or maybe even less resistance than the smaller gauge pure copper. http://caraudiomag.com/articles/copper-wire-vs-copper-clad-aluminum-wire-wire-warnings How far will you go with this? Will you start telling me that 4 gauge copper will hold a higher capacity than 0/1 gauge CCA? 8 gauge? 10 gauge? Draw the line. Do your research. I couldn't care less what your opinion is because guess what, its not helping me at all. The problem in my car is NOT my CCA battery wire. And some more hard facts to back up what I'm saying. http://www.bladeice.com/KnuKoncepts%2010.09%20V3.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I could care less what Knu Koncepts thinks because guess what. THEY SELL THAT CRAP!!! My 1000/1 can only take 4 gauge wire or about that. I am sure as hell not going to use aluminum! you and me do research at different places. I don't care what KNu koncepts prints about it I look in the periodic table and text books or wikipedia and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Both you stop please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 STOP WITH THE FUCKING ARGUING. LET'S GET BACK TO THE ELECTRICAL PROBLEM THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE EVENT THAT CAUSED THIS ARGUMENT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Aluminum is not as good a conductor as copper. Steel (iron) is much worse than aluminum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity (about halfway down the page--the table titled "This table shows the resistivity, conductivity and temperature coefficient of various materials at 20 °C (68 °F)" Top four conductors of those listed: Silver, Copper, Annealed copper, Aluminum. If I'm reading the notes correctly, aluminum (note 4) "Commonly used for high voltage power lines". Iron doesn't make the "top ten" list. Stainless steel is #18 of those listed. I'm a bit disappointed that "mild steel" isn't listed. I'm sure some additional searching will provide a suitable confirmation. "I" would not use aluminum wiring. Never have, don't plan to start. But as long as it hasn't corroded...I don't see that there's a reason to beat the guy up about it. [Edit] Here's another web site that does list "steel" rather than iron: http://www.kp44.org/ftp/ElectricalConductivityOfMaterials.php If copper conducts 100%, steel conducts 15% or less. Silver is better than copper at 105%, and aluminum is worse than copper at 61%. (Working on a reply for electrical system testing. Sorry, gonna be awhile...) Thank you! As for the wiring, it is copper clad aluminum. My understanding is that its copper clad for the purpose of preventing oxidization. I will also be filling up the hex compression ring terminal with solder and heating it with a torch to make sure the ends never get corroded and that the terminal never goes anywhere. Should be enough to prevent oxidization in 2 feet of runs in an engine bay. I simply need a thick cable and couldn't afford copper, its that simple. Even the 0/1 gauge CCA was $1.95 a foot. OFC 0/1 gauge is $3.95 a foot, and that's a damn good deal at KNU. 2 gauge copper wiring is normally around $3.50 a foot, which according to the research I've done, is equivalent in capacity and voltage drop to 0/1 AWG CCA if not worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 No, this is my thread and I wanted advice on my electrical gremlins, smurfs, midgets, whatever you want to call them. Its frustrating, its annoying, and its making my daily commute a huge pain in the ass. I don't need this wise cracker coming in and telling me my wire is shit and that's the reason for my problems and providing zero proof of his claims. You know what we call that on other boards? Trolling. If you have to lock this topic, fine, lock it, and I'll take this discussion to PM with the people who have actually helped. It is painfully obvious who's actually helping here and who's bringing their baseless and biased opinions into a thread where they not only clearly don't belong, (see lack of proof or facts above) but are also unwanted. That is not what I was saying. Just please quit feeding into this pissing match you were led into, the thread will be far more productive that way. Let him say whatever it is he thinks is right and ignore it. You don't have to sell him on your POV. Let bygones be bygones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 STOP WITH THE FUCKING ARGUING. LET'S GET BACK TO THE ELECTRICAL PROBLEM THAT EXISTED BEFORE THE EVENT THAT CAUSED THIS ARGUMENT. I think I should be the one mad and typing in all caps. But yes, lets get back to the electrical problem that existed before I was told that the answer to all my problems is to replace my perfectly capable wiring with copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'll let it go. It just really pissed me off because I'm at my wit's end here trying to get this working and am a hair away from buying another car that can drive me to work and back reliably and the last thing I need is bad advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Replace your crappy cca cable with copper. Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Replace your crappy cca cable with copper.Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk You're the one who installed it, genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 You supplied me with the stuff. Lol Check the auxpost and that fuse block. Youll pretty much have to pull all that apart and check for corrosion and weak connections, do the same on the passenger side underhood fuse block Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 You supplied me with the stuff. Lol Check the auxpost and that fuse block. Youll pretty much have to pull all that apart and check for corrosion and weak connections, do the same on the passenger side underhood fuse block Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk Thanks. I'll check that out and see what I can find. My KNU ground wire came in btw, so I'll be running that to the engine bay as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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