This is what happens when you get bored......

[BXX]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets face it, our stock control arms are kinda weak, but also just plain out suck. Even new, they look like a car crusher mangled them:lol: Worse we are stuck with crappy heavy ass knuckle assemblies and mediocre brakes.

 

What your looking at is aboot 1.5hrs worth of work including texting and sitting on my ass:lol:

 

Before anyone pops up 'why don't I just buy a gen 2 car?' the answer is simple, I don't like them. What I like is having better/upgraded stuff on the most awsome W-bodies ever, Gen 1!!!

 

If I have time at work tomorrow, I will run around the block to Aztec Steel and get some steel so I can finish the mounts, and then on the way home, stop by Sears and get a plumb bob so I can reference the other side for proper balljoint location when doing the front LCA mounts.

[BXX]

Evil Genius, Mad Scientist, or just a Retard?

 

You decide

[AL]

All of the above?

[xtremerevolution]

Minus the part where you had to butcher the subframe, nice!

[BXX]

Minus the part where you had to butcher the subframe, nice!

 

Butcher? There was no butchering:lol: It's not 100% trimmed. All will come together once its done.

 

Can't wait to pick up some stock and get welding.

[BXX]

Where I had to cut out, will prolly be 'boxed in' and take car of any weak points whatsoever.

[gpchris]

Very cool and worthwhile upgrade! Not only do you drop a ton of weight with aluminum parts you also gain like twice the braking power if you upgrade to the f-body brakes.

[xtremerevolution]

Very cool and worthwhile upgrade! Not only do you drop a ton of weight with aluminum parts you also gain like twice the braking power if you upgrade to the f-body brakes.

 

Its not a serious amount of weight. I think the idea is to allow for better shocks options (KYB AGX) and better brakes. I'm curious as to how this will affect wheel offset.

 

w-body brakes, when working well, can still brake perfectly well for just about anyone. The factory dual piston brakes can lock up the wheels all too easily unless you start track racing.

 

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[BXX]

Wheel offset? Why do you think I gotta get a plumb bob so the balljoint is in the same location when I do the front mount.

 

 

And yeah, going F-body brakes or whatever the latest and greatest 'bolt on' brake upgrade is:lol:

 

 

And Andrei, not stock Gen 1 brakes are gonna be able to lock up my wheel/tire combo:lol: And I don't like having to use all my damn leg power to make a car stop.

 

 

Needz to get a nice fat Gen 2 swap bar as well.. GMPP bar should do nicely.

[white4d96]

Meh.

 

On the forums I'm on that are more 2G and 3G-oriented, they hate their front LCA's and the fact that you can only get one poly bushing for them, and that the other bushing apparently likes to fail often.

[xtremerevolution]

Wheel offset? Why do you think I gotta get a plumb bob so the balljoint is in the same location when I do the front mount.

 

 

And yeah, going F-body brakes or whatever the latest and greatest 'bolt on' brake upgrade is:lol:

 

 

And Andrei, not stock Gen 1 brakes are gonna be able to lock up my wheel/tire combo:lol: And I don't like having to use all my damn leg power to make a car stop.

 

 

Needz to get a nice fat Gen 2 swap bar as well.. GMPP bar should do nicely.

 

All I know is that my brakes stop on a dime and people who I've given rides to will attest to that, and they don't require gobs of pedal to make it happen.

 

That said, a larger brake rotor would be beneficial, no doubt. I've had smoke coming out of my front brakes on a few occasions on some hard 60-0 stops.

Edited January 9, 2012 by xtremerevolution

[BXX]

Meh.

 

On the forums I'm on that are more 2G and 3G-oriented, they hate their front LCA's and the fact that you can only get one poly bushing for them, and that the other bushing apparently likes to fail often.

 

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/481-ZZP-Control-Arms-for-WBody.aspx

[xtremerevolution]

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/481-ZZP-Control-Arms-for-WBody.aspx

 

$513 for a pair of control arms?

[Schurkey]

Is the ball joint-to-rear bushing location the same for both control arms? I'd think if it wasn't, you'll have caster/camber issues depending on how different they are.

 

I'd love to see that front bushing after it's been run through a band saw. That bushing scares me. I think I'd prefer poly inserts with the stock geometry so the control arm hinges freely--I expect that front bushing has some bind in it. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

What is it about the new control arm that allows bigger brakes than the old control arm?

[White93z34]

I think its largely the balljoint placement that allows for running gen2 knuckles/struts

[jman093]

Sweet project. FWIW, has anyone ever measured exactly how much heaviler a first gen front suspension minus brakes is compared to a second gen?

[BXX]

Once im done, the balljoint will be in the proper location. It appears i wont even have to do anything with the rear mount either, but if i have to cut that one off and move it 1/4 inch, no biggy. Of course where i locare the front mount in the end dictates where the balljoint will be. Im well versed on suspension angles, so i have zero doubts that i will screw this up. Its actually pretty straightforward.

 

Today i picked up tons of 1/8 inch steel plate that i will be boxing the cradle and making the mount with. Although i think im gonna wait to complete it until i pick up a plate shearer instead of spending so much time using a air cutoff tool. Plus the end results will be nicer.

 

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[BXX]

I think its largely the balljoint placement that allows for running gen2 knuckles/struts

 

Bingo!!!! And mainly better brakes.

 

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[White93z34]

also helps that the 2g front suspension makes 10000x more sense then the loony unistrut-knuckle-mess

[BXX]

Exactly! A set of AGXs, gring off the spring perch, assemble my coilovers and voila.

 

And yes, i also want a set of tubular control arms, and a nice fat gen 2 sway bar.

 

Like i said, its also a control arm that doesnt look like a mangled piece of sheet steel. Plus, i can buy gen 2 control arms new cheaper than gen 1.

 

Also Shurkey, the bushing is designed to allow the proper movement. Look at all manufactures now, they are all using verticle bushings on one point. Aside from a few that are known the slip, replacing them with heavy duty aftermarket parts bushings solve that.

 

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[gpchris]

Its not a serious amount of weight. I think the idea is to allow for better shocks options (KYB AGX) and better brakes. I'm curious as to how this will affect wheel offset.

 

w-body brakes, when working well, can still brake perfectly well for just about anyone. The factory dual piston brakes can lock up the wheels all too easily unless you start track racing.

 

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Having done this upgrade myself over a year ago I can tell you first hand theres quite a bit of weight loss. I forget the number but with tubular control arms, aftermarket coilovers, aluminum knuckles and aluminum f-body calipers its about 30lbs per side. Combine that with a manual trans and you've almost made up for the weight of a 3.4 haha.

[xtremerevolution]

Having done this upgrade myself over a year ago I can tell you first hand theres quite a bit of weight loss. I forget the number but with tubular control arms, aftermarket coilovers, aluminum knuckles and aluminum f-body calipers its about 30lbs per side. Combine that with a manual trans and you've almost made up for the weight of a 3.4 haha.

 

You neglected to mention tubular control arms.

 

30 pounds though? I find that very hard to believe. I'm not even 100% sure if the control arms, knuckles, and dry calipers together weigh a whole lot more than 30 pounds, and I've replaced the control arms on the GSE.

 

I have the F-body brakes ready to be installed on the GSE, but don't forget that the rotors are bigger, the pads are bigger, and they're dual piston and significantly bigger. The weight difference there is quite minor once you consider the differences for the entire swap. 15 pounds is more believable and the only real benefit will be in reducing unsprung weight.

 

How much of a weight difference is really there between stamped steel and tubular control arms? 5 pounds?

Edited January 10, 2012 by xtremerevolution

[BXX]

I could care less aboot the weight savings, it's all going on my Euro/Z which is my DD. I just want brakes that I have to put way less effort into stopping.

 

I figure it'll be aboot 20lbs total using stock control arms including brakes. Imma sure there are nice aluminum calipers out there that will work on Gen 2 knuckles.

 

I would be outside today working on the car, but I need a day off doing nothing to recouperate. I've been deathly exhausted the past week, not sure why.

 

Sat night, I went from being ok and awake at 10pm, to holy shit I need to get to bed before I fall asleep walking at 10:30pm. I hit the bed and passed out cold. I've never done that or been that tired before. So the next couple days off I have (today and Sunday) I gotta relax. Work has been busy and tiring.

 

And Chris, got some pics of your work? Not trying to be a dick dude, but you've said time and time again how you did something before to your car, yet i've never seen pics of anything except an asploded "quality" coilover mount from fricken DOHCV6:lol:

 

I wanna see how your cradle was modded if it's pretty much the same idea I haz stuck inside the clusterfuck I call my mind.

[xtremerevolution]

I could care less aboot the weight savings, it's all going on my Euro/Z which is my DD. I just want brakes that I have to put way less effort into stopping.

 

I figure it'll be aboot 20lbs total using stock control arms including brakes. Imma sure there are nice aluminum calipers out there that will work on Gen 2 knuckles.

 

I would be outside today working on the car, but I need a day off doing nothing to recouperate. I've been deathly exhausted the past week, not sure why.

 

Sat night, I went from being ok and awake at 10pm, to holy shit I need to get to bed before I fall asleep walking at 10:30pm. I hit the bed and passed out cold. I've never done that or been that tired before. So the next couple days off I have (today and Sunday) I gotta relax. Work has been busy and tiring.

 

And Chris, got some pics of your work? Not trying to be a dick dude, but you've said time and time again how you did something before to your car, yet i've never seen pics of anything except an asploded "quality" coilover mount from fricken DOHCV6:lol:

 

I wanna see how your cradle was modded if it's pretty much the same idea I haz stuck inside the clusterfuck I call my mind.

 

The F-body brake upgrade is an aluminum caliper and a dual piston one at that. The pads are more than 2x bigger than they are on the 2nd gen w-body.

 

 

I have a set in my garage and I just need to drill and tap the caliper brackets to work with the w-body bolts, clean them up a bit, and paint them.

[BXX]

Also, any reviews on ZZP's tubular control arms?

 

I dont wanna spend $500 on a set and have them end up the way of the RK Sport tubular LCAs on Jbodies where they break.

 

I see where they say they are made from 4130, but I don't know the quality of their welder or what size the tubing is.

 

I could make a set myself once I get my tubing bender, or just have my welder make me a set for aboot the same cost. I know there are zero quality issues with his welds, especially on Chromoly. He's a tube frame drag car fabricator who specializes in Chromoly.

 

Of course, modding a set of stock arms with a poly busing on the horizontal mount and a spherical bearing on the vertical wouldn't be a bad idea at all.