90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Good Day! I have a 1990 Lumina Euro Coupe V6/3.1... I just got it in August... a couple of days ago, I replaced the front valve cover gasket... but when I took the valve cover off... I was shocked at how much thick baked on sludge there was... inside the valve cover and all over the rockers and springs and everything... the previous owners apparently didn't take very good care of the engine. I had the same engine in a Pontiac Sunbird with about the same miles on it... 175K... and there wasn't any sludge under the valve cover. Can anyone recommend a good internal engine and/or oil system cleaner that might help to remove heavy duty sludge deposits... something that you may have used and have had a good experience with... something that really works! I plan on doing oil changes about once a month for a while, and running some kind of engine cleaner through it each time to maybe clean things up in there... I'm also using Marvel Mystery Oil as a fuel additive each time I gas up. Any advice or recommendations will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) I've read up on AutoRX and it's very well documented, though I haven't tried it myself yet. http://www.auto-rx.com/ Edited October 29, 2011 by Addicted To Boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 what type of oil do you you use in your vehicle? I don't like the idea of crazy flushes... and I think 1 month oil change intervals are nuts! If I were you I would run a synthetic and change just the oil filter at 2500 miles and do a full oil change at 5000, but 50 miles before the oil change dump 1/2 a quart of transmission fluid in the engine, (aka marvel mystery/STP/whatever oil additives at a cheaper cost) and change the oil. Also... ADD A MAGNETIC OIL PLUG.(see parts thread) p.s. you could also use seafoam as an engine flush, but i would dump it in the engine and let it idle for 20 minutes before service and not drive it with seafoam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 ...it's really dirty in there... unbelievably dirty... I just picked up the car in August, and have changed the oil once... I used Quaker State High Mileage Enhanced Durability 5w-30, Slick 50, and a Fram Tough Guard Oil filter... I have a big strong magnet stuck to the bottom of the oil pan. My thinking is that several "flushing" type oil changes, with some kind of cleaning additive, using cheap oil and cheap filters, would help clean things up in there... and then do a fancy oil change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 ...it's really dirty in there... unbelievably dirty... I just picked up the car in August, and have changed the oil once... I used Quaker State High Mileage Enhanced Durability 5w-30, Slick 50, and a Fram Tough Guard Oil filter... I have a big strong magnet stuck to the bottom of the oil pan. My thinking is that several "flushing" type oil changes, with some kind of cleaning additive, using cheap oil and cheap filters, would help clean things up in there... and then do a fancy oil change. Careful. Dislodging gunk is a great way to get it in places where it shouldn't be (clogging up your filter at which point it goes past the bypass valve) and revealing engine oil leaks. Run seafoam through the intake to clean up carbon build up in the combustion chamber and leave everything else alone. Do regular oil changes with quality oil and get a good filter. Run a pf-52 equivalent (found on the 1st gen lumina z34 with the 3.4 LQ1, among other engines) if it fits. Its a longer filter that will perform better and allow you more miles until it clogs up and allows oil through the bypass valve. Additives are a waste of money. Been there, tried that. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 x2 with what Ken says. I've never ran Seafoam in the engine, but I hear it works well. Also, I too would use synthetic. It cleans up better than conventional oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) ========================================== The Proper/Time Consuming Method ========================================== 1) Order 2 bottles of AutoRX: http://www.auto-rx.com/ and follow the steps outlined at http://auto-rx.com/sludgeappl.html - Use conventional oil of your choice and pair it with a Purolator PureOne oil filter during this process. AutoRX works wonders for engines that have been abused/not properly maintained and it's worth the money. I've used it on a few GM 3.1 V6 engines and it made a world of difference - it's just a time consuming process! 2) On the tail of EACH AutoRX treatment (within 200-300 miles of needing to change the oil) add some Seafoam directly to the crankcase. It will help break up hard deposits and just tidy up things in general. 3) Once you finish the AutoRX & Seafoam treatment you need to use a QUALITY synthetic with a QUALITY filter. Go grab yourself some 10W-30 Pennzoil Ultra or Mobil1 Extended Plus (the 15K Stuff) and join it with a Bosch Distance Plus filter (available form Advance). Only reason I'm recommending the Bosch is due to the capacity of the filter - if your engine is anything like you say it is than you want to make sure you've got plenty of space to catch dirt and grime in the filter. It's a good quality filter (just below the Purolator PureOne in terms of filtration - very, very, very close though) and is great for extended changes. In this case it's just something you want if the engine hasn't been taken care of. Change the oil at 5,000 miles. 4) That's it. Engine should look much, much, much better. ========================================== The "I Want It Done Now With Quick Results" Method ========================================== 1) Add some Seafoam directly to the crankcase immediately and run the engine for about 20-30 minutes. Concidering the amount of sludge you don't want to be driving with Seafoam in the crankcase just yet. Change the oil, run another conventional oil with a Purolator PureOne filter for about 2,000 miles. Add Seafoam again before you change the oil (300-200 miles before) and drive until you hit the 2,000 mark. 2) Once you finish the Seafoam treatment you need to use a QUALITY synthetic with a QUALITY filter. Go grab yourself some 10W-30 Pennzoil Ultra or Mobil1 Extended Plus (the 15K Stuff) and join it with a Bosch Distance Plus filter (available form Advance). Only reason I'm recommending the Bosch is due to the capacity of the filter - if your engine is anything like you say it is than you want to make sure you've got plenty of space to catch dirt and grime in the filter. It's a good quality filter great for extended changes, but in this case it's just something you want if the engine hasn't been taken care of. Change the oil at 5,000 miles. 3) At this point you can either venture down the Auto-RX route I mentioned (sticking with a recommended synthetic oil on the approved list + PureOne filter) or you can keep running a high quality synthetic with a good filter. Depends on how much you value the car and how long you want to keep it. Edited October 29, 2011 by ptcfast2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 (edited) ...it's really dirty in there... unbelievably dirty... I just picked up the car in August, and have changed the oil once... I used Quaker State High Mileage Enhanced Durability 5w-30, Slick 50, and a Fram Tough Guard Oil filter... I have a big strong magnet stuck to the bottom of the oil pan. My thinking is that several "flushing" type oil changes, with some kind of cleaning additive, using cheap oil and cheap filters, would help clean things up in there... and then do a fancy oil change. that is HORRIBLE. You should probably stick to walking. Quaker state = oil infamous for sludging, though it may or may not be a myth. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100130145047AA3RAIH Slick 50 = oil passage clogging if it contains PTFE (teflon), or just a shitty additive if it doesn't. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2042063 FRAM = paper gasket, under-performing filter. Buy WIX or PUROLATOR. the magnet on the pan is also bad. If it falls off you will have just released the metal it caught into the oil. BUY A MAGNETIC OIL PLUG, you can remove and clean it, and every car I have has one. SYNTHETIC+ QUALITY FILTER + MAGNETIC OIL PLUG is the only way. do oil changes on a shorter interval(3000 miles, or do the filter swap halfway on a 5000 mile oil change) for the next two or three oil changes, then stick with 5000 mile oil changes. Edited October 30, 2011 by Crazy K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I have to ask...what is the magnet for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 ==========================================The Proper/Time Consuming Method ========================================== I like this... it seems "thorough" to me... I like the idea also of the big better Bosch filter. Thanks Very Much for taking the time to write all this... I really appreciate it... maybe you can turn it into a Sticky or "How To Clean Your Engines' Guts" article... post it here and/or some "How-To" website. I like that many recommend Seafoam... I have no experience with the stuff but I'll definitely be adding it to my regimen and use it as advised. I like also the advice about the synthetic oil... I have a good feeling about this advice and I think this old car of mine is feeling the same vibes. I put a big strong magnet on the bottom of my pan... unless I go off roading and bottom out (not likely to happen) the magnet ain't coming off... It's Very strong... it collects metal particles to the bottom of the pan... when I change the oil... I remove the magnet, the particles release... and the crap flushes out with the oil... I like better the magnetic drain plug advice and will install one at the next oil change... I want to replace the plug anyway. As I said, I picked this car up in August 2011... it's an $800 dollar car... it's got issues... I knew it did with the first test drive it... but I liked it none the less... I'm a sort of a sucker for basket cases... I felt I should give it a good home, improve it's health, and make it pretty... I'm going to make it my own, do the best I can for it... I have some very nice plans and I've been doing as much as I can... have done quite a bit already in the short time I've had it... and have, I think, an impressive list of "things done"... the rain here in Owego, NY has been almost non-stop all year... and we had a big flood in September... I do all my own work... but I don't have a garage and all around my little trailer home it's all deep mud... my efforts to improve form and function to my vehicle are being ransacked by mother nature... I have parts needing to be installed including but not limited to an engine mount, spring pads and helpers, a starter... I have my drivers side front fender held on with just a few bolts pending replacement... if I can ever get to Gary's U-Pull-It with my salvage yard shopping list... I'm Very Glad this website/forum exists and I reference it often... Eventually, I believe, with the help and advice of others here... this old car will become one sweet beautiful right running red hot ride... Thanks for All... John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have dumped most of a bottle of seafoam in the crankcase let it idle at op temp for an hour, dump the oil/filter and refill and go. if you really feel frisky there is a product NAPA sells that does the same thing. Worked wonders on my 3800. Oil is generally nice and clean now. My engine was also "not so bad" just had lots of coking from lack of oil changes before I got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8shot Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I can vouch for the auto-rx treatment. It works great! Its nowhere near instant gratification, but it works as advertised. Another big selling point on it for me was that it is very effective at stopping leaks. I used it on my 92 silverado which at the time had about 305k miles on the 100% original engine. But the rear main seal would leak about a softball sized puddle of oil every day after 8 hours of being parked at work. I did the auto rx schedule and after two full cycles of treatment, flush, regular oil then treatment, flush, and regular oil, it doesn't leak at all anymore! I was very skeptical, but it definitely made me a believer! I did not pull off the valve covers to see if there was any sludge but the 350's aren't known to be prone to developing sludge. Plus the valve covers have never been off in over 300k so its kind of a pride thing too. Its expensive stuff compared to seafoam, but you wont be disappointed! My truck is nearing 320k and it still only leaks maybe a single drop or two in 24 hours vs a quart a week before auto-rx. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I can vouch for the auto-rx treatment. It works great! Your recommendation is very much appreciated and takes some of the procrastination out of me about opening my wallet. Sealing leaks would be a plus. I'm still in the process of cleaning off the external surfaces of the engine. I know that the power steering pump and water pump were leaking for quite a while before I got the car... and made a huge mess. I replaced both just days after bringing it home. The valve cover, which I just sealed, was leaking badly also... and it seems that was also a long time leak... the gunk on the engine is phenomenal and tenacious... I've been picking away at it little by little with a jackhammer and pressure washer. I suspect there may be more leaks... but I still have more cleaning to do before I know... maybe at the oil pump shaft seal... oil pan... some that I may be able to tighten up or repair... some... the PITA-To-Repair ones... I'm hoping to seal by way of a product such as Auto-RX. I had one of these engines in a Sunbird... the car this Lumina replaced. It had a beautiful 3.1 inside and out and ran like an angels' chariot. The timing chain broke and wrecked the engine... actually the timing chain guide wore out... then the timing chain got snagged on it and broke. So, now I'm paranoid about that... and ASAP, I'll be replacing that whole shabang, leaking gasket or not. I believe the job is something of a monumental task... but if the cover is leaking... I'm hoping that Auto-RX can give me a hand with that. Big Thanks, John B. Owego, NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I have been using the Fram Tough Guard Oil Filters. I like the idea of the Anti-Drain Back feature... for better starts... and it does work because I've compared it with other filters without the ADB feature... I can Hear the difference and the car I was using them on started quicker... smoother. I believe that I was getting that initial first start protection. I have yet to research the filtering qualities of the many oil filters out there... and where Fram sits in that arena... but I'm wondering if the Bosch, Purolator, or WIX have similar ADB features... or what do you think about using a larger Fram TG? Edited October 31, 2011 by 90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I've heard bad things about Fram since they've sold out to Walmart. That they currently make them down to a price rather than up to a standard. Granted I've never tried them (since I've heard that) so it's probably just a personal preference. I just stick to AC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90V6RedHotLuminaEuro Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hmmm... I didn't know that about Fram and Walmart... it gives me a bad feeling too... I don't like the relationship... yep! ...everything is getting cheaper (crappier)... and generally the price remains the same while the quality goes down the toilet... AC... another recommendation... I'll add it to my list of research items. I'm hoping to find some website out there that has already done the technical comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I personally feel that if it's what came on the car, it's probably good. Besides, I can get them at the dealer at cost so it's cheaper than most other ones for me anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 wix and purolator and every filter on the market should have an anti-drainback valve. the good ones use silicone rubber I believe. wix and purolator have those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Careful about the whole "sealing leaks" thing. Valve lifters have some pretty tight tolerances and any amount of clogging can cause problems. If you have a leak, it needs to be fixed properly. Also, see this article: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brake Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I ran a bottle of Seafoam through my crankcase for about 3000 kilometers. Left it in there until the oil was as black as night and changed it...a few thousand clicks later and the oil I've been running in there still looks new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I ran a bottle of Seafoam through my crankcase for about 3000 kilometers. Left it in there until the oil was as black as night and changed it...a few thousand clicks later and the oil I've been running in there still looks new. Oil is supposed to look black after a while. That's the whole idea. The detergents in oil are made to absorb certain levels of contaminants so they don't get deposited around your engine. That being said, black oil isn't necessarily bad or dirty oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brake Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Oil is supposed to look black after a while. That's the whole idea. The detergents in oil are made to absorb certain levels of contaminants so they don't get deposited around your engine. That being said, black oil isn't necessarily bad or dirty oil. It's bad when it runs like water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 It's bad when it runs like water That's probably because you thinned the piss out of it with that can of seafoam. You're not supposed to run that stuff for more than like 20 miles if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brake Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 To clean built-up oil residues and contamination from the crank case, add 1½ oz. Sea Foam® to each quart of engine oil. Sea Foam® will slowly re-liquefy residues and suspend contaminants for easy removal. Monitor oil for color and clarity and change oil and replace filter when oil looks dirty. http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-use-sea-foam-motor-treatment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brake Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 To clean oil rings and lifters, add 1½ oz. Sea Foam® to each quart of oil. Sea Foam® will slowly re-liquefy the old oil varnish residue that builds up on lifters and rings and prevents them from functioning normally. This process can be done as part of a pre service cleaning by adding the Sea Foam® to the oil at least 30 miles before the next oil change interval. OR it can be done as a preventative maintenance process without changing the oil. You can leave Sea Foam® in the oil indefinitely as long as the oil is clean. The addition of a high-detergent oil like Sea Foam® may cause the oil to become dirty faster than normal as buildup oil residue and contamination are cleaned. Check the oil at regular intervals and when it gets dirty, change it. same link EDIT: My first post has to be approved apparently. http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-use-sea-foam-motor-treatment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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