gpse3200 Posted October 30, 2002 Report Posted October 30, 2002 http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5406 "Since the vast majority of customers don't care about features, he asserted, "we can do larger displacements with better performance and fuel economy at lower cost than our competitors." An engine level of technology is defined by much more than its valvetrain, and "efficiency levels of new-tech pushrod engines come very close to those of OHC. Another advantage is packaging, and you can get modern OHVs to rev like OHC engines. No one would call today's Corvette engine low-revving." "
GnatGoSplat Posted October 30, 2002 Report Posted October 30, 2002 I'm very impressed! GM has performed miracles with the good old fashioned pushrod engine. The 240HP 3.5L V6 comes really close in HP/L to the 255HP 3.5L DOHC in the Nissan Maxima. I'll bet that 3.5L gets much better fuel economy to boot. Whatever happened to the 300HP XV8? It was an FWD engine, perfect engine swap candidate.
gpse3200 Posted October 30, 2002 Author Report Posted October 30, 2002 LOL yeah right?It even had our waterpump!!!! LOL That's one wacky motor:)
Brian P Posted October 30, 2002 Report Posted October 30, 2002 Yes...YES. Finally good thinking on GM's part. No more BS motors, no more timing belts and "gotta remove my intake manifold to change the plugs" just getting to the point!
brian89gp Posted October 30, 2002 Report Posted October 30, 2002 V-12, my god is that sweet. I would remove whatever is needed to get to the plugs just to get my hands on that engine
Jeorge Posted October 30, 2002 Report Posted October 30, 2002 that would be perfect for a chevette........
91GranSport Posted October 31, 2002 Report Posted October 31, 2002 Let's not get carried too far away now. GM definitely has the resources to build excellent products. They have the knowledge, funds, experience and facilities to build powerful motors. It just seems that GM is so far behind when it comes to competing with their European and Japanese competitors. Apart from building decent engines, they have yet to build their interiors and their vehicles in general to meet the quality of their foreign automakers. I've driven the Corvette Z06, GM's flagship model and I must say the build quality on the interior is nowhere near the quality of my less-expensive Audi A6 Quattro. By no means am I trying to flame GM, but sometimes we all must feel disappointed when a company as large as GM seems to be behind the times. I'm sure GM can definitely build excellent engines and excellent cars overall. The question that crosses our minds is: When?
Guest Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 well, if that article hold true, then the answer to that is SOON!!!!!
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 Being that it is a press release and not some motortrend b/s, I'll belive it. And when they make it, IT HAD BETTER SOUND THE SAME!!! I WANT TO HEAR THOSE BOAT NOISES OUT THE BACK, AND I WANT IT BE JUST AS SMOOTH, AND I WANT IT TO GROWL JUST LIKE IT ALWAYS HAS!!!! I'd also like the starter to sound the same, not this weak sounding new GrandAm starter. Light weight and fast starting yes but they could at least maybe shim it or something so it doesn't sound so wimpy. So it can sound classic:) As far as the Vette is concerned, I see more of those in a day that I see a6's in a month(not trying to flame you either). And I live in New York. So I guess tell it to the owners...Not that I care(because its Vette anyways) but that guy JD McPower and his associates rate the Vette with highest initial quality or some B/s like that. If a Z06 landed on me, the last thing I'd be complaining about is the interior nuaces unles it was just outright bad, just as long as it holds togther, looks very finshed, and has lots o'gauges. When the door handle comes off in my had or when the rearview mirror falls off when I'm adjusting it, thats when I'll get bitchy.
91GranSport Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 I agree, I'd really like to see those motors come into production. I would like to see less exploitation of their proven products though. The 3800 Series II and the "Gen-III V-8" line are far too exploited. Vehicles lose their character and identity when they all use the same powertrains. As far as the Vette, I have no complaints with it as far as bang for the buck. The Z06 can compete with the Ferrari 360 and the Porsche 911 Turbo for less than half the price. However, sit inside the Z06 and then sit inside an Audi and you'll see a major difference in build quality. If someone threw a Vette my way would I complain? Obviously not. However, if you go out and spend $80,000 on a Z06 don't you think you want to see your money well spent on a decently built interior? Consider it this way, my other vehicle, a '91 Regal GS, has nearly the same amount of plastic and probably the same grade of plastic as the Z06, yet my vehicle is over 10 years old. Things like that is what GM has to improve. In 10 years they should've known how to build interiors with quality materials. Of course the ergonomics have greatly improved as the Z06 has one of the most beautiful interiors I've ever been in, it's just too bad the abundance of cheap materials makes you feel like you're drivign a PowerWheels electric Corvette. It may sound like I'm picky about the interiors a bit more than most people, but the way I see it is that you spend your entire driving experience inside the vehicle, not outside. You may as well enjoy your accomodations, right? Hopefully when GM comes out with those new motors they'll come out with better interior materials as well.
weisinator Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 Why complain about the interior? If you're buying a sports car, that should be towards the bottom of the list. Audi VS Corvette? Two different audiences, despite being in the same price range. They aren't direct competitors. Viper vs Corvette, Ferrari vs Corvette, Porsche 911 vs Corvette: there's your target audience. While Porsche and Ferrari have decent interiors, they cost boatloads more than Corvette. Mercedes and BMW offer 2 seat sportscars that have nice interiors, but will get thier ass handed to them by the base model vette at the track. They cost more than the base model Vette. It needs saying again: world class sports car for half the cost of other world class sports cars.
Brian P Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 There's just a few things GM needs to work out. They need to use items that are less susceptible to wear out. New GM buttons are painted "black" and eventually the paint peels off...printed logos and lettering wear out in a year or two. I noticed how there's a "rubbery" layer on many plastic pieces in the Corvette to make it look "non-cheap" but that wears off too (as seen in a new Corvette on display at the Bowling Green, KY plant) if GM just addresses the few problems, they'll be fine...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 If anything, I think GM has become cheaper on their interiors. On almost all their cars now, they've tried to make the hard plastic seem less cheap by painting them with that rubbery coating, but that rubbery coating comes off revealing ugly black plastic. I know, because this is happening on the upper dash panel of my truck - not a dash PAD, I guess they figured they'd save money using thin, cheap, hollow, hard plastic with a rubbery coating to simulate the look of an upper dash pad! I agree on the painted buttons too. I wish they'd use 2-colors of molded plastic like the old keyless entry remotes. It was impossible to wear the writing off, but the new ones use painted rubber and I frequently see them rubbed off. However, I agree, Audi and Corvette are not a direct comparison. An Audi is more comparable to Cadillac, as they're in about the same price range (an A6 starts at $30k). I haven't been in a late-model Cadillac, so I can't comment on whether GM saved the good stuff for them, or if their interiors are as cheap as the rest.
Brian P Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 That's the problem though: GM does this to save $ and as a result give them more profits, but nobody really speaks up when their $23,000 Grand Prix only has a 3.1, NO lower side moldings and lower rear bumper to match the front bumper (you know, the "smart" package") lets not get into the CHEAPNESS of the dash vents, especially on '98+ Oldsmobiles among others. Also take a good look at how crappy the climate control knobs are in '94-96 w bodies... ANyone besides me remember when the signal stalks had the writing ENGRAVED into it? That's durability
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 I've sat inside audis more times that I can care to remember. I've owned three of those things. Their intereors don't strike me as exciting or intersting to look at. Not to mention I don't particualy care about how they like to put their gauges in metric when we are here in America. Its a privilidge to sit in a Corvette to forget about even turning the key. The audi has a comfortable seat but I don't feel privledeged to sit in Audi, infact I get annoyed. Thier shifters are annoying, their engines turbo or not, need to go for a dump in the East River and even those don't sound exciting, their radios until now have been 7watt let downs, and I get bored real quick inside there, like every other german or japanese car I've been in. As long as a car is finished pretty good and it looks interesting and not tacky, and not falling apart, I'm happy. Haveing an interior made of gold is not gonna help the quattro when it breaks down(another unimpresive piece, binds the car up more than it helps it move. Should be saved for trucks that really need 4 wheel drive). Two different audiences, two different cars, but like I said I see more Corvettes in a day than I see audis in a month so obviously Chevrolet is doing it right and has since the 50's. There's more to cars than the interior materials...But if that is what you are looking for, then thats what you are looking for. Last time I checked I started this thread about powertrains, not armrests..............................And that's my defense your honor
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 ......Not meaning to flame you but that how I and others see it......
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 "I agree, I'd really like to see those motors come into production. I would like to see less exploitation of their proven products though. The 3800 Series II and the "Gen-III V-8" line are far too exploited. Vehicles lose their character and identity when they all use the same powertrains. " Well you know that vw is guilty of that too as well as other foreign companies not just domestic. I can practically name a lot of companies that do that. I'm not totally agianst things foriegn. The new mercedes big convertable has a decent shape(except that grille and the wacky interior), also has a nice 5 liter V8 that makes 300 hp. An nice normal number for its size. And it doesn't go overkill on the valvetrain using 3 valves to appease the customers, or I'm sure they'd use 2. The rear of the car reminds me of a ROYAL Crown Victoria. I'm sure it drives like a nice GT and sounds like a Chevy V8. That car I'll bet has the feel, but I'll take a Corvette before that....I'll take a lot of other cars before that.....
JPaganel Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 ... I don't particualy care about how they like to put their gauges in metric when we are here in America. ... Well, how is it Audi's fault if the US is not up on the metric system like the rest of the civilized world? At least GM is making their fasteners metric (mostly). Seriously, though. It does strike me as odd that we are using a measurement system that even its originators gave up on. And the differences are just a pain in the ass. When I worked at a parts store, I had people tell me about a Ford (forget which one) that had four bolts holding the fuel pump to the block. Two were metric, two were standard. One more reason I dislike Fords...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 I hate English measurements. Although metric seems strange and unfamiliar to me, I'd be more than happy to switch.
Guest Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 I just want to point out that I work on cars for a living. In the 3 months at my current job, I have worked on 2 Corvettes (one got a battery, and the other got 4 tires), and I have worked on about 20 Audi A6 (not the A4. I have worked on about 50 of those). I see more Foreign car (Honda, Nissan, Audi, VW, Mercedes, the list goes on, and on, and on, and on). than I do american cars. It is a safe bet that for ever 1 american car I work on, I have to do about 7 imports. Also, even though I mostly do tires, batterys, and oil changes, a lot of the cars are in there for more than just those. The A6 for example is notorious for have electrical problems. MOST OF THEM THAT I DO BATTERIES IN HAVE AN ELECTRICAL DRAIN IN THEM. Those cars go through batteries like you wouldn't believe. The ones that come in for tires usually have alignment problems. I have seen brand new ones that we will not work on, and tell them to go to the dealership. As to the american cars that come in, most of them are in good condition. The only American cars that come in that have electrical problems are the ones that have an import counterpart (example the Geo Prizm, and the Toyota Corolla). I am not wanting to flame here either, but with as many imports that I have to work on every day (including BRAND NEW CARS such as the 2002 nissan altima v-6 that was in for 3 days in a row, and a brand new honda civic SI-V-TECH [you know the one. The one that has the shifter in the dash, and looks kinda like a urinal]) I do not EVER want one, and if any one of my family gets one, I will disown them. Taylor
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 ... I don't particualy care about how they like to put their gauges in metric when we are here in America. ... Well, how is it Audi's fault if the US is not up on the metric system like the rest of the civilized world? At least GM is making their fasteners metric (mostly). Seriously, though. It does strike me as odd that we are using a measurement system that even its originators gave up on. And the differences are just a pain in the ass. When I worked at a parts store, I had people tell me about a Ford (forget which one) that had four bolts holding the fuel pump to the block. Two were metric, two were standard. One more reason I dislike Fords... Well you tell me what you think when you got an whole array of readouts that make no sense and you are trying to decifer them in traffic. Bars and Celsius was never engrained in my head as much as farenheit and PSI like almost every other regular American. Hell if they make a Speedo in MPH why won't they convert the other gauges, to me thats just plain annoying. Not everone in the US knows bars and celsius. It should be the will of the people as to what system we need to use, and so far there hasn't been enough movent in the US world for it. Corporations can do it but that is their own buisiness. What the conumer wants is another thing. It's doesn't matter to me as long as I can covert it fast in my mind. As far as Ford is concerned You seem to be mentioning carburetor, well probably at that time they were making a switch of fasteners, just as GM was. The point is those readouts are usless if the person can't understand them, they may as well just use dummy lights. NOT everyone in this country can no matter how rich and famous you are can readily understand that stuff. Its just one of those quirky things that company likes to do regardless. Its one thing when a company does it for like stuff that people won't see(such as when the engineers are designing the car and such), but its one thing when the consumer has to see it and can't understand it. If I were buying on of those things, considering how much I'm paying I want it in Standard becasue thats the scale we use here and thats what I'm accustomed too, the country not the company decides our laws ultimately. One last thing Not that using standard makes you civilzed but not every country using metric is civilized.
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 "as Ford is concerned You seem to be mentioning carburetor" I meant to say "carburetor fuel system type"
gpse3200 Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Posted November 1, 2002 This has definately gone off the topic.
GnatGoSplat Posted November 1, 2002 Report Posted November 1, 2002 If you learned to be accustomed to the old English standard, you can learn to be accustomed to metric too. :read: I don't believe in sticking with a crappy standard because people are used to it. I have to translate metric to standard before it makes sense to me, but I know it's a crappy standard and I'll be more than happy to learn familiarity with metric.
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