Rusted/seized bolts

[intern8tion9l]

the problem isn't just the nut rusted on, it's the bolt rusted inside that metal collar that goes through the rubber. i had to cut both of mine off as well

[xtremerevolution]

Propane is not hot enough for seized bolts. Mapp gas is hotter and will do what you want.

 

Good advice here. Mapp gas is what you need if you really want to get hot. If Mapp gas doesn't suit you, a oxygen-acetylene torch will do the job too.

 

Penetrating oil is WAY over-rated.

 

Most of the time, it's impact wrench, oxy-acetylene torch, or die grinder/cutoff wheel for me. I don't bother with penetrant except in unusual circumstances. The typical issue is that the oil sprays on the outside of the joint and fastener(s), and never does "penetrate" to where it might do some good.

 

The only time it has helped me was when I was able to get the bolt loosened up to a degree to where it could penetrate. Otherwise, its damn near useless. I don't have access to a good grinder with a cut-off wheel, but the Dremel has done a fine job over the years.

 

Penetrating oils do work. It's best if you give it more time to work. That's when you will see the best results. Anthony is right about hitting it hard with a BFH. It helps to brake the rust free. Sometimes it's beyond that and you have to use a torch or brake out a cutting wheel.

 

Penetrating oils are all overrated. They do help, but I recall a test being done a while back when all of the penetrating lubricants were tested against a mystery mixture. The mystery mixture worked significantly better than all of them, and was revealed to be 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Guess what's I use these days?

 

the problem isn't just the nut rusted on, it's the bolt rusted inside that metal collar that goes through the rubber. i had to cut both of mine off as well

 

I had that happen to my control arm bolts when I did the poly bushing mod. There was no choice but to cut the ends of the bolts off and pry apart the subframe mount arms to get the control arm out.

[Schurkey]

I don't have access to a good grinder with a cut-off wheel, but the Dremel has done a fine job over the years.

If you think a Dremel does a good job, have I got good news for you!

 

Mac Tools AG70 is the current version of the die grinder I bought ~15 years ago. Used it HARD and LONG, every day for the first ~3--4 years I owned it. Had to replace the bearings a couple of times. Still my "go to" die grinder.)

 

http://www.mactools.com/ShopOnline/Product/tabid/120/productid/318261/variantid/309020/Default.aspx

 

I also have a Snap-On die grinder, mine is the extended-shank version of the PT200A pictured below. Works good, (I two-fist this extended-shank grinder when porting cylinder heads with a rotary file--better control) but I don't like it as well as the Mac for general-purpose use. The Snap-On has a plastic body that is less durable than the aluminum-bodied Mac. Don't get me wrong, in this case "second rate" is still MILES ahead of the Ingersol-Rand and Chicago Pneumatic J-U-N-K that my former employer bought for us to use. Don't get me started on the import die grinders that have so little power you might as well use the Dremel.

 

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=yes&tool=all&item_ID=92678&group_ID=809&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

Either of those die grinders, a suitable mandrel, and Walter "Zip" cutoff wheels...

 

http://www.walter.com/Walter/en-ca/abrasives/cutting-wheels/die-grinders-steel/zip

 

...and you're going to wonder why you bothered with the Dremel except for the very small stuff, or in extremely cramped locations. These guys will tear through metal like you won't believe, and the Zip wheels last about three times as long as the cheapies. There are other abrasive wheels that get good recommendations...but AVOID THE CHEAP/COMMON stuff sold by discount stores. The cheap abrasive wheels EXPLODE; and I've SEEN people get hit with the debris when the cheap wheels come apart. It's not pretty.

 

Of course, OSHA will demand a shield over the cutoff wheel; and I understand the reasoning...but...they're also a pain in the ass. I put a shield over my eyes, not over the wheel. So far...so good.

 

Honest to God, a QUALITY die grinder with a Walter Zip or similar high-quality abrasive, and you'll be amazed!

 

 

 

Penetrating oils are all overrated. They do help, but I recall a test being done a while back when all of the penetrating lubricants were tested against a mystery mixture. The mystery mixture worked significantly better than all of them, and was revealed to be 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Guess what's I use these days?

Thanks for the reinforcement. I have heard of the ATF/Acetone mix, but I haven't tried it.

 

 

 

There was no choice but to cut the ends of the bolts off and pry apart the subframe mount arms to get the control arm out.

I'd have hit the end of the bolt with an air hammer to see if the bolt would knock free from the bushing sleeve. I'd guess 66/33 chance of success.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Schurkey

[mra32]

If you think a Dremel does a good job, have I got good news for you!

 

Mac Tools AG70 is the current version of the die grinder I bought ~15 years ago.

 

 

I also have a Snap-On die grinder, mine is the extended-shank version of the PT200A pictured below. Works good, (I two-fist this extended-shank grinder when porting cylinder heads with a rotary file--better control) but I don't like it as well as the Mac for general-purpose use. The Snap-On has a plastic body that is less durable than the aluminum-bodied Mac. Don't get me wrong, in this case "second rate" is still MILES ahead of the Ingersol-Rand and Chicago Pneumatic J-U-N-K that my former employer bought for us to use. Don't get me started on the import die grinders that have so little power you might as well use the Dremel.

 

 

Either of those die grinders, a suitable mandrel, and Walter "Zip" cutoff wheels...

 

 

...and you're going to wonder why you bothered with the Dremel except for the very small stuff, or in extremely cramped locations. These guys will tear through metal like you won't believe. There are other abrasive wheels that get good recommendations...but AVOID THE CHEAP/COMMON stuff sold by discount stores. The cheap abrasive wheels EXPLODE; and I've SEEN people get hit with the debris when the cheap wheels come apart. It's not pretty.

 

Of course, OSHA will demand a shield over the cutoff wheel; and I understand the reasoning...but...they're also a pain in the ass. I put a shield over my eyes, not over the wheel. So far...so good.

 

Honest to God, a QUALITY die grinder with a Walter Zip or similar high-quality abrasive, and you'll be amazed!

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reinforcement. I have heard of the ATF/Acetone mix, but I haven't tried it.

 

 

 

 

I'd have hit the end of the bolt with an air hammer to see if the bolt would knock free from the bushing sleeve. I'd guess 66/33 chance of success.

 

Reading comprehension problem? You even quoted the man's post, conceding his dremel to obviously higher quality tools yet you pontificate on the merits of your high quality tool collection.

[xtremerevolution]

The reason I bother with the dremel is because its small and gets in tight spaces, and I have a snake hose attachment that allows me to get into really, really cramped areas to cut stuff up. That, and its cheap. As I did mention, its not the best option, but it does just about everything I've needed it to quite well. Of course, I can't exactly speak for everyone else who tries to perform ingrown toenail surgery on themselves with one.

 

As for die grinders, I have one. Bought it while I lived in California, but I also had a 27 gallon, 1.9hp compressor out there. I used it to port a set of Jaguar V12 heads. That worked amazingly well.

 

Unfortunately, die grinders use up a LOT of air. I couldn't run my die grinder for more than 2 straight minutes before my tank was low on pressure, so its really not just about what die grinder you're using, but also whether or not you have a 220V outlet at your house (good luck getting a high powered 120V compressor significantly bigger and more powerful (of any real consequence) than the one I had).

 

So in order to have a nice die grinder, you need a 220V power outlet and a very beefy compressor. Sure it works, but very few people have the ability to use one.

[Schurkey]

conceding his dremel to obviously higher quality tools yet you pontificate on the merits of your high quality tool collection.

What did I concede? That a tiny grinder will do a better job where there's poor tool access? That's kind of...obvious.

 

I own a Dremel, too. The only time it gets used is when there's no space available for a "real" tool. Dremel accessories SUCK for metal working, at least with iron and steel. The rotary files are barely hard enough for use on plastic and hardwood. The fiberglass-reinforced abrasive wheels work well enough, but don't last long. The stone abrasive wheels shatter instantly, and the shaped stone grinder tips overheat and shatter on anything I try to use them on--or--wear out so fast I can watch the diameter reduce. I guess they're intended for tiny, delicate work, of the sort that I don't do any of. Pretty fond of the brass and steel wire brushes for blasting corrosion off of fusebox terminals, though.

 

Which is why I posted "good news". Powerful, durable tools that will make (most) of his bolt- or other metal-cutting/grinding chores MUCH faster, easier, more pleasant, etc. I have personal experience with a whole bunch of different air-powered die grinders; of which there are exactly two basic models that I would recommend because they've proven to me that they COMPLETELY OBLITERATE anything else I've used--including some "famous name" tools which perform so poorly that I and others at that jobsite refused to use them.

 

In short: I proposed a better way to perform hateful work based on years of experience; including safety hints to prevent injury to body, and warnings about low-performing tools to prevent injury to his wallet. It's the sort of advice I'd like to receive on these forums.

 

Is there a downside to the die grinders I recommended? Sure. They take a LOT of compressed air, and they aren't free.

[xtremerevolution]

What did I concede? That a tiny grinder will do a better job where there's poor tool access? That's kind of...obvious.

 

I own a Dremel, too. The only time it gets used is when there's no space available for a "real" tool. Dremel accessories SUCK for metal working, at least with iron and steel. The rotary files are barely hard enough for use on plastic and hardwood. The fiberglass-reinforced abrasive wheels work well enough, but don't last long. The stone abrasive wheels shatter instantly, and the shaped stone grinder tips overheat and shatter on anything I try to use them on--or--wear out so fast I can watch the diameter reduce. I guess they're intended for tiny, delicate work, of the sort that I don't do any of. Pretty fond of the brass and steel wire brushes for blasting corrosion off of fusebox terminals, though.

 

Which is why I posted "good news". Powerful, durable tools that will make (most) of his bolt- or other metal-cutting/grinding chores MUCH faster, easier, more pleasant, etc. I have personal experience with a whole bunch of different air-powered die grinders; of which there are exactly two basic models that I would recommend because they've proven to me that they COMPLETELY OBLITERATE anything else I've used--including some "famous name" tools which perform so poorly that I and others at that jobsite refused to use them.

 

In short: I proposed a better way to perform hateful work based on years of experience; including safety hints to prevent injury to body, and warnings about low-performing tools to prevent injury to his wallet. It's the sort of advice I'd like to receive on these forums.

 

Is there a downside to the die grinders I recommended? Sure. They take a LOT of compressed air, and they aren't free.

 

You need to consider a few things.

 

First, your target audience. Who owns these kinds of cars?

 

1. enthusiasts who have owned them for a long time

2. people who can't afford anything else

 

The latter isn't the audience that's going to be able to afford to run a 220V power line, get a beefy 30+ gallon compressor, a hose, and a die grinder to cut off a few bolts. They work on their cars because getting someone else to do it is too expensive. If I had the money for that kind of equipment and if my car didn't have more mods on it than I can fit in this post, I wouldn't be driving it.

 

What you posted was actually bad news for many. Bad news in the form of, I'm doing this myself because I can't afford to pay someone else a few hundred dollars to do it, which means I also can't afford to pay more than a few hundred dollars to get the tools to do it myself, and I want to find some quick tips. Its not really helping anyone but people who work on cars for a living or like to mod the hell out of them, who likely also have those tools (BXX) and thoroughly enjoy them.

 

For the record, there isn't a single bolt on a w-body that I can't cut with a dremel and a few reinforced cut-off wheels. Sure it might take a couple of minutes longer, but what's the difference?

 

Your advice is excellent, but you're giving it to people who are very unlikely to be able to use it.

[mra32]

I give up. Am I being misunderstood by everyone else?

[GP1138]

You need to consider a few things.

 

First, your target audience. Who owns these kinds of cars?

 

1. enthusiasts who have owned them for a long time

2. people who can't afford anything else

 

The latter isn't the audience that's going to be able to afford to run a 220V power line, get a beefy 30+ gallon compressor, a hose, and a die grinder to cut off a few bolts. They work on their cars because getting someone else to do it is too expensive. If I had the money for that kind of equipment and if my car didn't have more mods on it than I can fit in this post, I wouldn't be driving it.

 

What you posted was actually bad news for many. Bad news in the form of, I'm doing this myself because I can't afford to pay someone else a few hundred dollars to do it, which means I also can't afford to pay more than a few hundred dollars to get the tools to do it myself, and I want to find some quick tips. Its not really helping anyone but people who work on cars for a living or like to mod the hell out of them, who likely also have those tools (BXX) and thoroughly enjoy them.

 

For the record, there isn't a single bolt on a w-body that I can't cut with a dremel and a few reinforced cut-off wheels. Sure it might take a couple of minutes longer, but what's the difference?

 

Your advice is excellent, but you're giving it to people who are very unlikely to be able to use it.

 

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a $20 angle grinder, and a $6 set of cutoff wheels, and cut a bolt in half in 15 minutes.

[xtremerevolution]

I went to Harbor Freight and bought a $20 angle grinder, and a $6 set of cutoff wheels, and cut a bolt in half in 15 minutes.

 

Win!

 

Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk

[Crazy K]

Hey... no fighting here!!!!!

 

The info Schurkey gave is good info, even though most of us might never go so far as to get that type of equipment. Most of us will be stuck with dremels or cheap shitty Chinese made tools you can buy at local tool and home improvement centers. Myself, I have done the same thing and attacked many a bolt using a grinder and cutoff wheels from harbor freight. The cheap equipment has been service grade but has done everything I have needed. I wear safety glasses and earplugs when using them.

 

Oh, and I paid $10 for my grinder from harbor frieght by using one of their regular coupons.... and I have two, each with a different attachment ready to go.

[GP1138]

Now, that's not to say mine worked perfectly... it emitted quite a bit of smoke after each cut, and I did go through 2 cutting wheels, but it did cut the bolt head off, and the grinder still works.