ptcfast2 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) So ever since I've had my 98 Lumina the steering wheel has had a "dead spot" or wiggle in the middle. It's not the rack causing it (just put a new one in) and I'm trying to figure out what it is. The wiggle in the video happens in park, when driving, etc and is always there. [video=youtube;zr_JJl8NsFo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr_JJl8NsFo Any ideas? It has the exact same amount of wiggle as the old rack had (new one didn't change it). Edited September 18, 2011 by ptcfast2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel87 Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Not sure to say the truth, my 95 Cutlass had the same thing happening. I never payed much attention to it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Nightmare Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 do the wheels move at ALL when you move the wheel like that? Well either way, so the tie rod ends are tight? Also I don't know much about this but just for your own investigations, I guess some of the later W bodies had some kind of intermediate shaft in the column, maybe check that out. I guess the pinion was not worn? Ball joints OK? Also, it isn't as much but my 94 grand prix has a bit too. If you are worried about it, just check everything in the steering to make sure it is tight (including the steering wheel nut) but in most cases cars tend to have a little free play in the wheel. That does seem a bit much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 The tie rods are new - replaced with the rack. The play travels down into the intermediate shaft and it moves the same amount the wheel does. The play also happens when the steering wheel is in the locked position. I do know the lock cylinder is on its way out (not sure how that works with the steering wheel lock) and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it really. I've removed the wheel once before to replace the turn signal switch - same play before and after that - so it's not the steering wheel nut or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Nightmare Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 play in the locked position - I am sure you might have tried this but at different locking points there is the play? The way the wheel locks is with the ignition off, there is this rod that will jam into this sprocket that has a few entry points... anyways I doubt that has anything to do with it... The next thing I would investigate is if all the hardware mounting the steering column is tight. I don't know how much there is but since you said this same play happens in the wheel when locked, it sounds like something is loose holding the column in place. Or what about that u-joint for the steering shaft close to the floor board? Hopefully someone will post who knows exactly what and where to look. I have not had any steering problems except some noises that supposedly came from the rack but the steering was normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) play in the locked position -I am sure you might have tried this but at different locking points there is the play? The way the wheel locks is with the ignition off, there is this rod that will jam into this sprocket that has a few entry points... anyways I doubt that has anything to do with it... The next thing I would investigate is if all the hardware mounting the steering column is tight. I don't know how much there is but since you said this same play happens in the wheel when locked, it sounds like something is loose holding the column in place. Or what about that u-joint for the steering shaft close to the floor board? Hopefully someone will post who knows exactly what and where to look. I have not had any steering problems except some noises that supposedly came from the rack but the steering was normal. Same play no matter where the wheel is locked. I can feel the plan travel down into the intermediate shaft u-joint in the bottom of the bottom inside the boot, so I'm wondering if the u-joints on the shaft are just tired. I can't seem to find the part number for the shaft though. Not sure...hopefully someone can shed some additional light on this. EDIT: Well I found the part number for the ISS - GM 26009452. I'm still wondering if this is something in the actual column itself though. If something is allowing it to move, the intermediate shaft would move as well (simple duh! moment there). It could be the internal shaft assembly in the column perhaps. Just seems like something is worn out....I just don't know what. Edited September 18, 2011 by ptcfast2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Alright, so the looseness coincides with something internal on the column. You can hear something inside the column make an abnormal noise near the lock cylinder when the wheel is extended to the left & right limits in the dead zone. So, I guess I'll take a stab at replacing most of the components I can get to when I replace the lock cylinder next month unless someone happens to chime in. Service manual isn't the most helpful with this, but at least it gives me an idea of some of the components that could possibly need replacing. I guess this might just be a "throw parts at it" problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Assuming that you have no slop anywhere else at any joint locations along the length of the column it sounds as tho the tilt knuckle assembly may be loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Would you be able to point it out on a diagram of the column or something? I can't seem to find what you mentioned in the service manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Here are a few photos of what the plastic *cross* looks like (these are from my son's Fiero column that he had disassembled, but the principle is the same)....it's held in place by a spring clip that is supposed to remove any play. If the clip has broken/slipped out or the two halves of the cross assembly are worn you'll get play there. Edited September 18, 2011 by 55trucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 the intermediate shaft also has a rag joint on it that likes to suck ass after all these years and give you slop. based off the picture, it should be item number 18, actually the arrow is pointing right at the rag joint on the I-shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 the intermediate shaft also has a rag joint on it that likes to suck ass after all these years and give you slop. based off the picture, it should be item number 18, actually the arrow is pointing right at the rag joint on the I-shaft Do you know if GM released a revised ISS for the 1.5 gens? I know the 2nd gens have had like 2 or 3 different revisions due to the clunk problem but they all seem to have a male + female end while the 1.5 gen ISS has 2 female ends. The 1.5 gens seemed to have the clunk problem as well, but it's hard to dig up any information on it besides the guide that shows you how to lubricate the ISS again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted October 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 Problem was in fact the steering shaft. Got a new one from the dealership and installed it today. Steering is like new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I might have this exact same problem. Could you provide some information to help me and others out who might see this thread later? Which part in that diagram did you replace, how did you replace it, how long did it take, how much did it cost, etc. Is this applicable to 1st gens as well as 1.5 gens, or is there a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 It's part 18/19 - Intermediate Steering Shaft. From what I know it's a dealer only part and it's applicable to all W-Bodies as this part is known to just be flaky as heck causing slop, clunks, and just general crappy feel to the steering after tons of miles. The part number is 26009452 and will range from $140-$250 depending on where you got it from. It applies most (if not all) 1/1.5 Gen W-Body vehicles. Mine was manufactured in June, so they are making this part fresh at least. 1) Go here and familiarize yourself with the pictures/steps 2) Make sure the steering wheel is locked (only really applicable to modules with airbags due to the clockspring) 3) Put the front left side of the car on a jackstand and remove the tire. 4) Follow the guide in step 1 on how he removes the ISS. Remove it and TAKE NOTE OF THE ORIENTATION OF THE CIRCULAR RAG JOINT. IT NEEDS TO BE INSTALLED THE SAME WAY AS YOU PULLED IT OUT. I've seen diagrams where the rag joint is near the rack instead of the base of the steering column - I don't know why. Additionally: this part collapses/expands so you can push up to give yourself some extra wiggle room or pull for more surface area. 6) Install the new ISS with the same orientation of the rag joint through the boot/boot opening. It won't be exactly a cake walk to get this back in the car to be honest. I've found that removing the EXTERIOR boot (one on the side where the power steering rack is) helps. It pulls right out. TAKE NOTE OF THE BOOT ORIENTATION/POSITION IF/WHEN YOU REMOVE IT. IT CAN BE A PAIN TO GET RIGHT IF YOU DIDN'T DO THIS. 7) From this point on you just need to find the best way for you to get the female joints attached to the male connectors on each end of the column/rack & pinion. I've always put the top one on first (base of the column, inside the car) and the bottom part last. It helps to rest the bottom part of the ISS on the male connector on the rack and pinion while you work on getting the top part of the ISS attached to the steering column. Don't be afraid to pry back the top part of the boot inside the car to get a good grip on the ISS. Tighten the top bolt a bit once you get that half on to prevent the ISS from sliding back down through the opening. 8) Before tightening the bottom bolt/installing the female end onto the rack slide the boot back on if you removed it from the car. You might need a screwdriver to push the boot back through the opening in the car. You'll know when you get it right...the boot won't crumple up when positioned over the steering rack connector and you'll be able to pry it up enough to see the end of the ISS. This part is really more of a you'll see what I'm talking about thing...so sorry if this sounds confusing. 9) Tighten both bolts on the top and bottom, make sure the boots are installed correctly, put tire back on, lower car, enjoy less vibrations, better steering, and smoother ride. Hopefully that isn't that confusing, but the guide is really general when it comes to actually getting it back on the car. It's not THAT easy, but can be done in an afternoon with a little bit of frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hmm. $130 from gmpartsdirect.com, plus shipping of course. Not too bad I suppose. I suppose if I have to do it, I have to do it. Was hoping I wouldn't. When your car was having problems, did you get an issue where if you took a turn in a certain direction, your steering wheel would shift in rotation and stay shifted, then turned in the other direction, the steering wheel would shift and stay shifted? So basically, what would happen to me is I'd take a right turn, and drive straight, and the steering wheel would be dead center. Then, I'd take a left turn, drive straight, and the steering wheel would be turned 15-25 degrees to the left. Did you experience this as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcfast2 Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Hmm. $130 from gmpartsdirect.com, plus shipping of course. Not too bad I suppose. I suppose if I have to do it, I have to do it. Was hoping I wouldn't. When your car was having problems, did you get an issue where if you took a turn in a certain direction, your steering wheel would shift in rotation and stay shifted, then turned in the other direction, the steering wheel would shift and stay shifted? So basically, what would happen to me is I'd take a right turn, and drive straight, and the steering wheel would be dead center. Then, I'd take a left turn, drive straight, and the steering wheel would be turned 15-25 degrees to the left. Did you experience this as well? I did actually, it was worse before the replacement if I recall correctly. I still have a tiny tiny bit, but I think it's just due to the actual parts in the column itself being older/worn...but replacing the ISS helped. One thing that let me know the ISS was bad (now that it is replaced) is that the vibrations from the engine barely travel through the column now. Makes a heck of difference in the feel of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 I did actually, it was worse before the replacement if I recall correctly. I still have a tiny tiny bit, but I think it's just due to the actual parts in the column itself being older/worn...but replacing the ISS helped. One thing that let me know the ISS was bad (now that it is replaced) is that the vibrations from the engine barely travel through the column now. Makes a heck of difference in the feel of the car. Ah, this may not be my problem then. I have both my lower engine mounts broken and I don't feel any additional vibration in the steering wheel. I'll have to wait until my mounts are replaced to see. Either way, $130 is something I'll have to think about, as its really not that bad for me to spend that kind of money to replace it...yet. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 PRO TIP: threading a screw(i use 7mm bolts common on our cars) into the crack of the pinch at the female shaft end can be done to widen the crack-gap if fitment is difficult over the male end it is suppose to go over. It only needs to just start, and can be removed once the part is inserted over the next part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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