Dark Ride Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 As the title says, what would stop me from putting the old non -e transmission in my lumina? I'm trying to fix the no OD mod lol. 1. I'm wondering mainly about electronics. IIRC the only thing the 4T60 looks to the ECM for is TC-lockup, which I could run a switch into the drivers compartment for and control manually. 2. What about half-shafts? I seem to remember the drivers being the same but the passenger being different or maybe vice versa? 3. Is there anything else I should worry about, I have the brackets I would need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Get a junkyard trans and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not to mention I don't think the 3100 ever had the correct throttle bracket and setup to run a TV cable. No 4T60 will work without that. Hell half them don't work right WITH it haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 It is missing the "E" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Clearly I need to explain why I am considering this: 1. I am totally freaking broke. 2. I have THREE known good 4T60 Transmissions with one having only 80K miles 3. I have replaced this transmission once already, the Good Used transmission I got turned out to not have functioning OD, and I didn't have time to replace it again. 4. Given points 1,2, and 3 it seems ridiculous to not at least attempt to find out whether its plausible or not. So the TV cable could be a problem, I hadn't thought about that. Am I correct in assuming that the 4T60 only requires TC-lockup signal from the ECM? I know there are five pins on the front anyone know which ones would need to be addressed and which can be ignored? Also, even though I have probably a half-dozen half-shafts lying around, I am curious if anyone knows if the half-shafts are different, that way if I decide to do this I can grab the right ones the first time. Edited July 7, 2011 by Dark Ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 the early 3100 TBs have a bracket that LOOKS like it's meant for TV cable hookup, though i can't say for certain. if your shift speeds aren't very closely matched to the 3100 tune, the PCM is going to freak the fuck out and likely throw codes at every shift. 4T60s only use a TCC lock signal from the PCM, which you could just hook up to the 3100 PCM in the correct location, and assuming it doesn't disable the TCC due to trans codes, it will function normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 the early 3100 TBs have a bracket that LOOKS like it's meant for TV cable hookup, though i can't say for certain. if your shift speeds aren't very closely matched to the 3100 tune, the PCM is going to freak the fuck out and likely throw codes at every shift. 4T60s only use a TCC lock signal from the PCM, which you could just hook up to the 3100 PCM in the correct location, and assuming it doesn't disable the TCC due to trans codes, it will function normally. So assuming I can make something work for the TV cable, even if the PCM does freak out, which I think that the 4T60 and the 4T60-e are close enough in shift points that it SHOULD be okay, the worst it can really do is shutdown the un-used tranny controller (which normally would send a 4T60-e into fail-safe) and stop enabling lockup, and throw the SES light which I can live with, its just my beater car. I'll have to look for the early TB bracket you mentioned since I have a '94 3100 TB laying around here somewhere. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 jonpro hooked up a 4T60 to a gen3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 So assuming I can make something work for the TV cable, even if the PCM does freak out, which I think that the 4T60 and the 4T60-e are close enough in shift points that it SHOULD be okay, the worst it can really do is shutdown the un-used tranny controller (which normally would send a 4T60-e into fail-safe) and stop enabling lockup, and throw the SES light which I can live with, its just my beater car. I'll have to look for the early TB bracket you mentioned since I have a '94 3100 TB laying around here somewhere. Thanks for the info! Put a 4t60 in place of a 4t60e and you wont have overdrive, period. Without shift solenoids working right AND matched shift speeds, the PCM will go into fail safe. You'd be lucky to have 3rd gear. Sooooo, it WONT fix your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Get unbroke, get a good working proper trans and be happy. Cant get unbroke? then deal with no OD. Dont see why you would need it with no money which means you have no reason to drive since you haz no gas:lol: Scrap all your 4t60s and axles and shit, and im sure you will have close if not all the money to get a junkyard trans that does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 it will shift into 4th(since shift points on a 4T60 are based on TV position and vehicle(engine/TC?) speed), i just don't see the PCM resonding well to the likely mismatched shift points and disabling the TCC because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 jonpro hooked up a 4T60 to a gen3. How did that go? Curious how he did it and how well it worked. Put a 4t60 in place of a 4t60e and you wont have overdrive, period. Without shift solenoids working right AND matched shift speeds, the PCM will go into fail safe. You'd be lucky to have 3rd gear. Sooooo, it WONT fix your problem. Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the PCM can't send a non -e tranny into failsafe, it is NON -E afterall. Get unbroke, get a good working proper trans and be happy. Cant get unbroke? then deal with no OD. Dont see why you would need it with no money which means you have no reason to drive since you haz no gas:lol: Scrap all your 4t60s and axles and shit, and im sure you will have close if not all the money to get a junkyard trans that does work. I like your thinking but trannys weigh what 200 lbs at most X 3 X current iron price of maybe $200/ton = $60 I guess I wasn't asking whether people thought I SHOULD do it, but rather if I COULD do it, my apologies for the confusion. Part of it is the cheapness factor, the other is the satisfaction of making what you already have work. it will shift into 4th(since shift points on a 4T60 are based on TV position and vehicle(engine/TC?) speed), i just don't see the PCM resonding well to the likely mismatched shift points and disabling the TCC because of it. So the moral of this thread is to make the TV cable work, see if the PCM will control lockup (doubtful) and if not control it manually or go without, its STILL better than no OD and 2800 RPMs at 60 MPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 i think i would rather have TCC lock in 3rd, than no lock in 4th. if given the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 it will shift into 4th(since shift points on a 4T60 are based on TV position and vehicle(engine/TC?) speed), i just don't see the PCM resonding well to the likely mismatched shift points and disabling the TCC because of it. Thats what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 For a TB bracket with a TV hookup, you'll need an uber rare 93 CS 3100 bracket (they do exist, ive seen one) I cant think of any other one having the hookup beside's modifying the 3100 bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Convert the 3100 to mpfi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 doesn't solve the problem of the TV cable, but it's been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 There are what, a few million gm v6 cars, gotta be a few models with a tv bracket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 there were a few million made PER YEAR, but that doesn't mean they're correct for the TB placement of a 3100 and a 4T60. i'm fairly certain all 93-95 3100 W's came with a bracket that will work though, it certainly looks like it has the provisions for a TV cable, and if i'm not mistaken, the throttle arm also has a barrel slot of it for the TV cable as well.... you know what, BXX, you haz the JxxPxx TGP, WTF did Jon do to it to work with the 4T60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 there were a few million made PER YEAR, but that doesn't mean they're correct for the TB placement of a 3100 and a 4T60. i'm fairly certain all 93-95 3100 W's came with a bracket that will work though, it certainly looks like it has the provisions for a TV cable, and if i'm not mistaken, the throttle arm also has a barrel slot of it for the TV cable as well.... you know what, BXX, you haz the JxxPxx TGP, WTF did Jon do to it to work with the 4T60? You know what, I was thinking the same thing:lol: However, with an empty engine bay and a huge pile of parts i'm not reusing, I'll try to sift through and see what he did. However, IIRC it was pretty fuckin ghetto:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I was out looking at the TB last night trying to see how I would do it and my TB has the same bracket that the diagram shows, looks like a TV cable provision to me:shrug: and it does have the barrel slot for it. I don't think this is going to be that hard, a little challenging perhaps, but definitely not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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