alec_b Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Because it's not about adding MORE sound. It's about adjusting WHERE the sound is coming from. As stated, it's called staging. When you're at a concert, or at a conference, or basically any situation where there's plain jane 2-channel stereo sound, the sound should be coming from in front of you. Plain and simple. Yes, rear speakers are needed to "fill in" the sound in a cars cabin, and that's just what the name REAR FILL states. They're not for super-accurate vocal reproduction, or additional extra-deep midbass, because that's all supposed to happen as close to the front of the car as possible. Where you sit. Do you sit in the back seat when you drive? No. Then why do you need super clean perfect sound back there? You don't. I consistently set my fade control 1 to 2 clicks to the front to help even out the sound stage. With a good setup, hell a DECENT setup, it WILL sound better with the front speakers doing more work. I promise. Even in a car like mine, with pioneer 4-ways in the back and stock, yes STOCK 5 1/4 speakers in front, and the crossover on my cheap sony deck set to 80hz, it sounds a ton better with the fader set to the front 1 notch in my case. Like xtreme said, all you have to do is try it. Two spins of a knob and it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have done it. all you need to distinguish the right and left sides is for them to be on the right and left sides like they are. its called stereo image. when you point the tweeters at the windshield and back glass the sound bounces off and hits your ears at the EXACT same time whether you hear it from behind you in front of you or all around you makes no difference and the sound stage can be accomplished by mounting all tweeters under the dash grills if you really think about it. bass... to a lesser extent midbass... but still, is non directional. meaning your ears are not able to tell where in the car its coming from. only the tweets are directional sound. argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 not argue, but arm yourself with this knowledge that helps you understand the science of sound staging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Wrong. Bass is only nondirectional only below 50hz IIRC. Everything else is directional. Not to mention you are talking about STEREO imaging, that has nothing in common with making something sound like it's in front of you. It can be perfectly stereo-imaged behind your head, but it will still be all wrong for SQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Wrong. Bass is only nondirectional only below 50hz IIRC. Everything else is directional. Not to mention you are talking about STEREO imaging, that has nothing in common with making something sound like it's in front of you. It can be perfectly stereo-imaged behind your head, but it will still be all wrong for SQ. What he said. I wish garret powered would spend more time trying to learn from what I have to say than trying profusely to prove me wrong. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 how can you seal up a door enough to provide the suspension a driver needs to reach full output? answer: you cant. separating the front from rear is all you can do and that will give you the equivalent of a free-air suspension driver. we all know what about free air drivers? yes that is right, they fart and pop when you turn it up. no way you will be able to use your 150x4 amp without busting leads on your driver. they are made for sealed boxes with suspension. home or car. I had some real expensive 3-way components blow a driver and I had to send it back through my local JL dealer in town. I made some fiberglass pods and turned up the volume to the same level and lo-and-behold they had actual midrange tight bass up in the higher frequencies and lower midrange area of bandwidth. then I put in the rear pods and it added even more great sound. so I don't see what you are saying makes any sense at all. sorry. Most components are designed with a high enough Vas to work well as infinite baffle drivers, since the manufacturers know damn well that its impossible to fully seal a door. Water drains at minimum will prevent you from doing that. The idea is to seal off the front of the cone from the back to prevent cancellation of frequencies. If you can work toward that, it will improve your sound significantly. Most people who run speaker pods have 3 way setups because even with cabin gain, its difficult to get good output from 80hz to 150hz in sealed pods without equalization. For the purposes of this particular install, a 3 way is not practical. As far as busting leads, what are you talking about? The only danger in over-excursion is bottoming out the voice coil and former, and as I mentioned, car audio components are designed with stiffer suspensions than other speakers. I can model the excursion of my massive audio rk6s if you want me to at their rated 125w rms thermal. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 9 times out of 10 leads snap because they're compromised because someone either grossly overpowered them or clipped the bejeezus out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) what did I just say? sound stage in front of you all tweeters in the dash. you think bass is directional but it fills the room with sound. you want directional try holding a 40k Hz tweeter and pointing it around the room. its like a cutting laser. and xtreme acts like I am not the only one actually experimenting with all the best equipment in sealed pods. like I need to listen to him and learn something I found out first hand already. Edited July 7, 2011 by Garrett Powered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 what did I just say? sound stage in front of you all tweeters in the dash. you talk about me as if I am not here listening and talking to you. and like I am not the one actually experimenting with all the best equipment in sealed pods. Here we go again. All the best equipment (JL Audio I presume)? There are plenty of companies that make significantly better equipment than JL Audio as far as components go. Image Dynamics, Rainbow, Focal, Alpine SPX series, and HAT are just a few. Get off the high JL horse please. You said stereo imaging, not sound stage. Would you like me to quote you? Sealed pods work great if they're done well in 3-way setups, but they don't work very well in 2-way setups due to the lack of midbass unless you have very good equalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runt Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I'm locking this now. Will deal with it more later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Don't bother. It's the third thread like this in the past month with the same people involved. No more. Moving forward... State your peace and move on, it is absolutely unnecessary to argue back and fourth with people who don't want to listen. If it is that big a deal take it to PM and argue till your hearts content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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