derekjm14 Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have a 99 lumina 3.1 with 103K. When I have the key in the on position I hear this clicking sound coming from somewhere in the dash. I recently installed a new head unit but I checked everything out and I can't see any problems... Does anyone have any ideas? I don't hear any noise while the car is running. I occasionally get a squealing sound that sounds like the starter to me, but that could be unrelated. Also, sometimes the car will start as soon as I put the key in the ignition. I don't even have to turn it over. I don't have the slightest idea what that could be so it may also be unrelated. Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Does it have an aftermarket remote starter? My 1st 96 regal had a cheap-o bull dog remote start that loved to randomly start the car. (Even when I was cruising down the road.) The clicking is probably a couple relays under the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Nope, no remote start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hmmm... I've never heard of a car's stock electrical system to screw up to the extremes of starting without turning the key to crank. Luckily, the starting system is pretty simple on the Lumina's, which pretty much narrows it down to a bad ignition switch, (may also want to inspect the ignition cylinder while you're at it.) I'd say the radio install is a completely isolated incident. Should be able to go out, get a new ignition switch, and be good to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted June 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Thats what I was thinking too. I already ordered the parts, hopefully it takes car of the problem. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) So, about 2 weeks ago the car completely died. when I turn the key I get nothing. No lights, nothing. So, I try to jump it and the lights and everything will come on but no start. It doesn't even click much less try to turn over. I can't even explain how frustrated I am with this stupid car... Does anyone have any ideas? I'm in the process of pulling the battery to have it checked. I forgot to mention I just installed a new ignition cylinder and ignition switch and still nothing. I have noticed the security light flashed when I turn the key, but that it literally all that happens. Does the computer need to be reset or anything? I disconnected the battery... Edited July 9, 2011 by derekjm14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 sounds like the PK2 system is acting up if the security light is flashing. either the module itself is dead(and therefore the starter enable relay is not functioning), or the key/it's circuit to the PK2 module is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 sounds like the PK2 system is acting up if the security light is flashing. either the module itself is dead(and therefore the starter enable relay is not functioning), or the key/it's circuit to the PK2 module is the problem. Do you know if I follow that write up on here and bypass the security, will it take care of this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 depends, the writeup on the forum is used if the resistor-in-key circuit is the problem. based on the light blinking, i would assume that it is, but not 100% certain. but since it costs so little, it couldn't hurt to try. if the module itself is going bad, then that trick won't do anything and you would either need to install a signal generator or have the PCM flashed to remove the need for the PK2 signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 This might be really stupid on my part, but I'm just really not familiar with this type of security system. The ignition cylinder I just replaced came with a new key, but the new key does not have the resistor-in-key. Is this the problem or is it normal that the new key is just a plain old key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 the PK2(pass key II) system reads the resistance of the little pellet in the key to determine if it's the correct one or not. if it's correct, the PK2 module sends a signal to the PCM to allow the injectors to fire and also enables a relay that allows the starter to turn over. if the incorrect resistance is seen with the engine off, then both shall be disabled. the module constantly checks/rechecks while the engine is running, if the resistance read goes out of range while the engine is running, the module will kick on the light after a delay and go into "fail-enable" mode, meaning it will allow starts if no key resistance is read. if it reads the wrong value in fail-enable, it will kick into theft mode and disable stuff again. the hot trick lately has been to cause fail enable on purpose and then disconnect the wires that lead up into the ignition cylinder contacts to prevent the PK2 module from doing anything anymore, just always enabling. your lack of resistor in your new key may be a problem, but since it seems to have happened before you replaced the cylinder, i'd doubt it being the issue. have a multimeter? for the couple of dollars it costs to rule out the key reading circuit as a problem, i'd go that route before attempting to either make/buy a signal generator and wire the starter enable relay to work whenever the ignition is turned on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) Well, either the old key or the old ignition switch was going bad to begin with. I was having intermittent security issues and no starts. When the old ignition cylinder was in I would turn the key, the dash would light up and nothing. Now with the new cylinder in there the dash still lights up, but now the security light flashes. It never did that before. How do I determine what resistor I need if I don't have a key with a pellet in it? I guess to clarify things: The original post was made when the Lumina was still running. About 2 weeks ago I went to start it and nothing. I would put in the key and try to crank it and nothing would happen. The dash lights all lit up so I ruled out a dead battery. I ordered a new ignition switch and lock cylinder and a week later finally got around to installing them. Now the same thing, turn the key and nothing. Since the car has been sitting the battery has died. If I jump it then the dash lights come on and the security light blinks when I try to start the car but still no turning over... Edited July 9, 2011 by derekjm14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think I might have managed to figure out my question... I replaced the ignition cylinder and ignition switch...I would imagine the information about what resistance is correct is stored in the pk2 module and assuming that its functioning properly I would think its still looking for the resistance of the original key, which I still have. So, I guess I will give that a shot. If anyone has any input please feel free to chime in, I am so sick of working on this car!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 A 99 Lumina has VATS not Passkey II. Its very easy to bypass, there is a write up on it in the FAQ section i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think I might have managed to figure out my question... I replaced the ignition cylinder and ignition switch...I would imagine the information about what resistance is correct is stored in the pk2 module and assuming that its functioning properly I would think its still looking for the resistance of the original key, which I still have. So, I guess I will give that a shot. If anyone has any input please feel free to chime in, I am so sick of working on this car!!! correct, the PK2 module stores the resistance it sees during it's first power-on event as the correct one. since you have the original key, if you do a resistance test on the pellet using a multimeter, you'll know which resistance the module is looking for. there are only 15 possible values(i have a chart somewhere), so matching up the correct one shouldn't be too difficult. you would need to find a resistor or resistors to equal the original key's ideal resistance, wire that in place of the plug/wire that run up the steering column, then the PK2 module will act as if the correct key is always being used, assuming it has the correct cut to turn the cylinder. A 99 Lumina has VATS not Passkey II. Its very easy to bypass, there is a write up on it in the FAQ section i believe. VATS is the name GM gave to the original PASSKEY system way back in the early 80s. PASSKEY II got phased in not too long after the original system came out. only difference between them is that one generates a 30Hz signal, the other a 50Hz signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 On VATS/Passkey I the chip is in the key itself. On Passkey II the chip is inside the ignition. Both are quite easy to bypass, although Passkey II is a little more involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 looking at 86 corvette (VATS/PKI) and 99 lumina system diagrams now: both showing resistors in key, similar if not idential keys as well. PK3 has the weird setup with stuff inside the key head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekjm14 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Alright, well so far I have replaced the ignition switch, ignition cylinder, bypassed the security, replaced the battery and the stupid thing still won't start!!!!!! I tried running a wire from the battery directly to the starter and all it did was spark... Does this sounds like the starter is dead? is it even possible that the starter and battery died at the same time? Autozone checked the battery for me and it was definitely dead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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