White92Cutlass Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Our 1993 3.1 Cutlass with 162,000 miles won't shift into 3rd. Had a Trans-Scan done on it today and had a transmission professional test drive it. No codes, but left with a diagnosis of a failing clutch pack with a repair estimate of $1,500.00 (complete rebuild). Since we have put $5,000 in this car over the past year to keep it running and it still needs a paint job and new top (among many other things), we aren't fixing it. It is going to eventually become our new parts car. We are planning to use it as our in town only car and not drive it above 45 mph until it is no longer able to move. Any guesses as to how long the tranny will last in this situation? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just a thought, but why not pick up a junkyard tranny for a few hundred dollars, and have it installed for a few hundred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's going to be more than a few hundred to install a JY trans. With incidentals that may break during install, figure labor at a reputable shop will run around $750. Plus shop supplies etc. Add in a couple hundred more for a decent low-mile trans, you're over $1k right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 ^ this is a pretty popular option and actually not all that difficult to do. for a direct interchange, you'll need to find one from a 93-94 LH0 equipped W-body and that will swap with absolutely no changes to anything else. if that can't be found, a 91-93 LQ1 equipped W-body would be the next closest match, i don't even think anything else would need changed, but you'll have a 3.43 FDR instead of 3.33, not a big deal and the PCM won't care about the slight change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Where do you come up with $750 for install?? I got a jy tranny installed in my cutlass, about $500 total for the trans and labor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Book time on the install is around 6.5 hours I believe? That's pretty standard for a domestic FWD trans. My shop rate is $99.94/hr goes to $125/hr for a customer supplied part, $125*6.5= $812.15 plus materials, at least 6 quarts of dex plus a fluid/filter kit that adds another hundred. Depending on what else breaks while removing the subframe etc. you can easily add another 2-300 just in case. That puts me a tick over $1k just in shop charges. Now, there are cheaper ways to go about it yes, but since it doesn't seem like he does any of his own work, I figured he should have a decent real-world estimate on what it would take. Let's say he find a shop that's more around 65-75/hr, 6.5 hours that's around $500 plus the above mentioned items that brings us closer to the $750 price I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 yeah, I see your point. Still, if a little bit of time is taken, it can be done If everything else runs great, throw a few hundred into it That's what I would do at least. Or, spend that same amount of money on another 20 year old W that will run forever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I second buying another one, hell with a full parts car like he has maybe a couple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted June 1, 2011 Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 Labor time is actually 7.1hrs, plus a 1.0hr addition thats given for misc reasons (adjusting detent, install new axle seals) So yeah, it sounds like a parts car for someone who doesnt do their own work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White92Cutlass Posted June 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've pulled numerous engines and transmissions out of cars, but they were mostly late 70's carbureted cars (Mustang, Firebird, Camaro, etc). Never messed with swapping engines or trans in newer cars or FWD cars. Our Cutlass needs thousands of dollars of work, so I'm just going to eventually spend that same amount on a Cutlass convertible that is much nicer than ours, already has the work done, AND has half the miles that ours does. Plus, we'll have a lifetime supply of parts to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 W's saving W's FTW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White92Cutlass Posted June 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 ^ this is a pretty popular option and actually not all that difficult to do. for a direct interchange, you'll need to find one from a 93-94 LH0 equipped W-body and that will swap with absolutely no changes to anything else. if that can't be found, a 91-93 LQ1 equipped W-body would be the next closest match, i don't even think anything else would need changed, but you'll have a 3.43 FDR instead of 3.33, not a big deal and the PCM won't care about the slight change. So the transmission from a 1991 Cutlass Supreme LHO would not be a direct swap? I have a '91 Cutlass parts car that I was thinking about stealing the trans from if ours stops moving before we have the cash for a new Cutlass. Also, if our current transmission was shifting correctly, at what speed would it be going into third gear? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 a 91 LH0 W would be a 4T60 instead of a 4T60E. 3rd should get engaged somewhere around 25MPH with REALLY light throttle, and TCC lockup in 3rd will occur a little after 32MPH in a stock tune, again with very light throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White92Cutlass Posted June 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thanks for the info. I know that the 4T60 and 4T60-E are not directly interchangeable, but would I be able to make it work since I have the whole car that the 4T60 came in? If it is possible, how much extra work would it be? Also, our current transmission consistently goes into 2nd gear at 20 mph. How abnormal is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 20 can be normal, depending on how much throttle you put into it. you COULD drop a 4T60 in place and have more or less everything bolt up since you have a parts car... the biggest(only?) difference a 4T60 and 4T60E is that the E version uses shift solenoids and relies on the PCM to command it when to shift, the 4T60 uses a TV cable and shifts based on line TV position and vehicle speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 You'd have to use the donor car wiring harness, which should be compatible... as it is also a W... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakdown Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 Just as an FYI, I just had a transmission issue on my 3100 V6 in the '95 and we elected to replace the entire powertrain together, since it had roughly 155,000miles on it. I bought a parts car that ran, and ran well with approx 68K miles on it, the car was rusted to pieces (you could go for a car accident special as well) and installed that. I think that there's far, far, far less risk in that than a J/Y transmission, and far cheaper than a rebuild. Part car cost: $400 Scrap after paying Chinese Matt gas and money towards renting trailer: $200 Total Parts: $200 + $40 for two new trans lines. I believe that labour is more friendly this way as well. In the end I also have lots of goodies from the parts car, and my former engine left over. It's just that you have to be patient for this to all come through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 3, 2011 Report Share Posted June 3, 2011 You'd have to use the donor car wiring harness, which should be compatible... as it is also a W... swapping the PROM as well would be a good idea in case the VSS reluctor is different. i don't have much info on the 4T60 reluctors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White92Cutlass Posted June 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Thanks for the input, guys. I decided that I'm gonna drive the Cutlass to work and back till it dies and then make it a parts car since my '91 transmission isn't directly interchangeable and because the '91 tranny has 207,000 miles on it. Hopefully, the current transmission will hold out till next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManicMechanic Posted June 6, 2011 Report Share Posted June 6, 2011 Book time on the install is around 6.5 hours I believe? That's pretty standard for a domestic FWD trans. My shop rate is $99.94/hr goes to $125/hr for a customer supplied part, $125*6.5= $812.15 plus materials, at least 6 quarts of dex plus a fluid/filter kit that adds another hundred. Depending on what else breaks while removing the subframe etc. you can easily add another 2-300 just in case. That puts me a tick over $1k just in shop charges. Those hourly rates are just absurd. This is why I don't take my cars anywhere to be worked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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