Looking for ideas for a small amplifer for a set of component speakers

[slick]

I have a set of component speakers that will be going into my brother-in-laws car to replace the factory speakers (2 are blown). He'll need an amplifier.

 

Amp needs to have full audio range, as they will be powering a set of component speakers.

Speakers are rated at 150w RMS.

 

Running off of factory radio. So, either can use speaker level inputs directly at the amplifier, or I will need to order a high to low level adapter (or maybe I have one in my old box of random install parts).

 

I have pretty much all the wire that we will need, so nothing to worry about there.

 

Price range- Nothing too awful expensive. He's just looking for something that will get a bit louder than stock, and to replace what is blown up.

 

Thanks.

[slick]

Just spoke with him- The cheaper, the better.

[alec_b]

You just need a 2 channel? Stick with a class AB amp, they're the best for full range. Stay away from a class D amp, they're only good for low range.

 

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_24872_Power_Acoustik_BAMF8002.aspx

 

That should fit the bill, not the greatest quality but for a set of components it's probably fine.

[white4d96]

I honestly wouldn't trust PA as far as I could throw them. I've ran them before and they distort like hell.

 

I've used this amp's older brother before, it gets hotter than heck but I never had distortion issues or protect issues:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_23328_Sony-Xplod-XM-GTX1302.html

These guys are supposed to be good, although I've never ran them:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_32462_RE-Audio-DTS-750.2.html

And these amps are supposed to be good budget amps, although they are typically overrated powerwise:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_11751_Crunch-P1100.2.html

 

Otherwise, my biggest advice: Go bigger rather than smaller than RMS. I ran 35RMS speakers on 200RMS for about 2 months before I pulled my system apart. Other than detonating a crossover cap on a heavily clipped song I had no issues, and they were the best sound those speakers ever had. I still run them today, albeit on HU power (for now.)

[xtremerevolution]

You just need a 2 channel? Stick with a class AB amp, they're the best for full range. Stay away from a class D amp, they're only good for low range.

 

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_24872_Power_Acoustik_BAMF8002.aspx

 

That should fit the bill, not the greatest quality but for a set of components it's probably fine.

 

There is no audible difference between modern Class D stereo amps and Class AB stereo amps. If anything, Class D will provide more power in a smaller package, run cooler, and draw less power as a result.

[RobertISaar]

isn't class AB and D just refering to channels supported or something trivial like that?

[xtremerevolution]

isn't class AB and D just refering to channels supported or something trivial like that?

 

No, its the actual amplifier design. Class D is emerging now in the absolute highest end receivers as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier

 

Most DIY amplifier kits are class D based. Very efficient, with great power handling, and in a very small package.

Edited May 24, 2011 by xtremerevolution

[alec_b]

Guess I was wrong! Maybe I was remembering some old article or something...

[white4d96]

IIRC Class D's have evolved a lot in recent years. For most car audio applications however class D amps are dedicated sub amps. I haven't seen very many D car audio amps that were full-range.

[xtremerevolution]

Guess I was wrong! Maybe I was remembering some old article or something...

 

Things have mostly changed in the last couple of years. I said the same thing you said on DIYMA not more than 2 moths ago. I was surprised at how many Class D full range amps there are.

 

IIRC Class D's have evolved a lot in recent years. For most car audio applications however class D amps are dedicated sub amps. I haven't seen very many D car audio amps that were full-range.

 

JL, Infinity, Arc, Sony, Kenwood, Eclipse, and Alpine, just to name a few, make full range class D amps.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-EA4200-Channel-Class-Amplifier/dp/B00172UO8S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306340630&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-KAPPAFOUR-Range-Class-Amplifier/dp/B001U0WROQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306340921&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/XD400-Audio-4-Channel-Amplifier-Features/dp/B00444J74I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306340921&sr=8-2

 

Of course, they aren't particularly cheap, but they are very powerful, run very cool, and are very efficient.

[white4d96]

Cool!

 

After putting my 800.4 back in I remember why I hate class AB amps: this sucker is POWER HUNGRY! I think it has more draw than my 1500w Class D MTX had

[alec_b]

I can't remember the last AB amp I had, maybe it was my old rockford. You could cook an egg on that thing and it was only like a 400w amp.

 

In comparison my eD Nine.1 has been proven to put out a clean 1300w at 1 ohm. Pounded 2 12W6's day in and day out for 6 months and never ever got more than luke warm.

[xtremerevolution]

Cool!

 

After putting my 800.4 back in I remember why I hate class AB amps: this sucker is POWER HUNGRY! I think it has more draw than my 1500w Class D MTX had

 

I can't remember the last AB amp I had, maybe it was my old rockford. You could cook an egg on that thing and it was only like a 400w amp.

 

In comparison my eD Nine.1 has been proven to put out a clean 1300w at 1 ohm. Pounded 2 12W6's day in and day out for 6 months and never ever got more than luke warm.

 

There's a reason to all of this. Class AB amps are only about 50W efficient.

 

I learned a neat little trick to dispel any marketing gimmicks with home theater amps. A class AB amp is about 50% efficient. My amp in particular (HTR-5940) is advertised at 105W, 6 channels, 630W RMS. I never questioned that I could deliver an entire 105W at 1khz or 85W at 20hz-20khz (as rated by the manufacturer) on all 6 channels till I learned how class AB amps work. Clever little marketing gimmick they use; they never really explicitly state that it will do that 85W per channel on all 6 channels simultaneously.

 

Turns out, the amp has an input power rating of 350W. Furthermore, being a class AB amp, its only ~50% efficient, bringing me to ~175W, which is essentially 85W on 2 channels.

 

Long story short, class AB amps are 50% efficient and lose the other 50% to heat. An amp rated at 400W will draw 800W when its delivering full load, and will release the remaining 400W as heat. 400W of heat is a LOT of heat. No wonder you could cook an egg on it.

 

Class D amps like the Nine.1 are ~90% efficient, so only 10% is lost to heat.

[white4d96]

My older MTX (81000D) was only 80% efficient, then again it was built in 2001

[xtremerevolution]

My older MTX (81000D) was only 80% efficient, then again it was built in 2001

 

Yeah, and even for the time, that was pretty good compared to Class AB.

[Garrett Powered]

JL audio uses "High-Damping Class D Circuit with discrete control circuitry (U.S. Patent #6,441,685)"

 

obviously nobody else can use this patented technology. Most other amps are not even able to compete with JL now.

 

although they do not mention the efficiency of the JL 1000/1 anywhere, eD claims the nINE.1 is 64% efficient. I believe they are so cheap for another reason though. internally set high pass filter not allowing the amp to go very low. my Cadence 1200@ 1ohm mono is the same way. great amp and it cranks out clean bass all the way down to close to 10 Hz, but it can't throw the cone around like a 1000/1 does. when I had that amp it would take all the power I could give it. batteries never lasted very long.

[Garrett Powered]

My older MTX (81000D) was only 80% efficient, then again it was built in 2001

 

 

as if being built in that time period meant things sucked then... that was a time when the industry had very fierce competition and rapid increase in technology.

[xtremerevolution]

JL audio uses "High-Damping Class D Circuit with discrete control circuitry (U.S. Patent #6,441,685)"

 

obviously nobody else can use this patented technology. Most other amps are not even able to compete with JL now.

 

A company called Tripath once (quite recently actually) designed a Class D switching circuit that allowed their amps to compete with tube amps for sound quality. People stood in utter amazement and shock. It rocked the amplifier world. They then went out of business and people started making variants of their design. Since then, there's been an utter flood of Class D variants and architectures from all amplifier manufacturers. The highest end flagship models for many home theater receivers are Class D architectures. Class D is the future.

Edited May 31, 2011 by xtremerevolution

[alec_b]

JL audio uses "High-Damping Class D Circuit with discrete control circuitry (U.S. Patent #6,441,685)"

 

obviously nobody else can use this patented technology. Most other amps are not even able to compete with JL now.

 

although they do not mention the efficiency of the JL 1000/1 anywhere, eD claims the nINE.1 is 64% efficient. I believe they are so cheap for another reason though. internally set high pass filter not allowing the amp to go very low. my Cadence 1200@ 1ohm mono is the same way. great amp and it cranks out clean bass all the way down to close to 10 Hz, but it can't throw the cone around like a 1000/1 does. when I had that amp it would take all the power I could give it. batteries never lasted very long.

 

I didn't know that about the nine.1, but the high pass filter actually makes sense. With I had it running my JL's, they were some of the cleanest sounding subs I've ever heard, in my car anyways. But it sure seemed like songs that I knew had very low notes just didn't quite get there. It wasn't like the subs couldn't GO lower, they just smoothly dropped off. Never really bothered me, but it sure makes sense.

[Garrett Powered]

I can't help it. it bothers me kind of. I am not even going to run my w7 without a slash 1000/1 v.2. the only reason I would run that giant 50 lb. sub is for those 5 Hz notes that separate the men from the boys.

[Garrett Powered]

A company called Tripath once (quite recently actually) designed a Class D switching circuit that allowed their amps to compete with tube amps for sound quality. People stood in utter amazement and shock. It rocked the amplifier world. They then went out of business and people started making variants of their design. Since then, there's been an utter flood of Class D variants and architectures from all amplifier manufacturers. The highest end flagship models for many home theater receivers are Class D architectures. Class D is the future.

 

I like my class G PE 1000w plate amp. I know they are not popular with some people and I am even a little skeptical because it broke and they fixed it for me. but you can throw all the power you want at it and it will still beg for more kind of like the JL amp I had. the more you fuck with the gain and crossover, it seems like you can really dial in the low notes. It makes noise at idle if you go too far with it, but I ran more electrical circuits to the room so it wouldn't rob it from the lighting in the room. I gotta say the wiring idea was the best thing I coulda done for it though and it helped it enough for an audible improvement. I had it tilting pictures on the wall and knocking stuff over the other day. the beveled and smoked glass panes in my coffee table were making some racket. the heat pump ducting was bouncing around in the wall.

 

I would need to really tweek with the crossover to hit as low as the Boston SPG555 in the red TGP. nothing I have personally tested can touch the JL combo I had though

[xtremerevolution]

I can't help it. it bothers me kind of. I am not even going to run my w7 without a slash 1000/1 v.2. the only reason I would run that giant 50 lb. sub is for those 5 Hz notes that separate the men from the boys.

 

What in the hell can you possibly play in a car that will require a 5hz tone? I don't know of any "music" that goes that low.

 

I like my class G PE 1000w plate amp. I know they are not popular with some people and I am even a little skeptical because it broke and they fixed it for me. but you can throw all the power you want at it and it will still beg for more kind of like the JL amp I had. the more you fuck with the gain and crossover, it seems like you can really dial in the low notes. It makes noise at idle if you go too far with it, but I ran more electrical circuits to the room so it wouldn't rob it from the lighting in the room. I gotta say the wiring idea was the best thing I coulda done for it though and it helped it enough for an audible improvement. I had it tilting pictures on the wall and knocking stuff over the other day. the beveled and smoked glass panes in my coffee table were making some racket. the heat pump ducting was bouncing around in the wall.

 

I would need to really tweek with the crossover to hit as low as the Boston SPG555 in the red TGP. nothing I have personally tested can touch the JL combo I had though

 

That plate amp is IMO a bit excessive, but I guess if you need 1000W in your home, it will do the trick. I would have loved to go that far, and in fact I do have a QSC GX3 pro amp with modified fans that will do a solid 425W RMS @ 4 ohms x 2 channels, but I didn't want to have to repair my framed pictures or break something. There's a limit to how much insanity I'm willing to go for, besides actually wanting a flat frequency response with some truly awesome speakers (google statement monitors). For now, the 15" Image Dynamics IDQ V2 will do more than perfectly.

 

Granted, I can't hit the lowest notes at THX reference levels (e.g. black hawk down chopper blades hitting down to 7hz), but to get those kinds of effects I'd also have to treat my entire room.

[Garrett Powered]

very few songs will hit that low. usually its only a track or two on the whole album if any. enough that when you get used to having it you will not want to give it up. sounds so good, and does not even hurt my ears. actually you can still carry on a conversation in the car because the bass is so clean and low.

 

that plate amp will do for now. I want an amp worthy of powering the w7 for home use, though I may never find one. oh well, I am putting it in my black TGP now.

 

excessive, no. do you hear people complaining that their boosted W-body is just too damn much torque? its just there for when you need it. nobody is going to make you only hear it full blast or twist your arm. but I would think if you broke some shit with bass waves that you did good.

[xtremerevolution]

very few songs will hit that low. usually its only a track or two on the whole album if any. enough that when you get used to having it you will not want to give it up. sounds so good, and does not even hurt my ears. actually you can still carry on a conversation in the car because the bass is so clean and low.

 

that plate amp will do for now. I want an amp worthy of powering the w7 for home use, though I may never find one. oh well, I am putting it in my black TGP now.

 

excessive, no. do you hear people complaining that their boosted W-body is just too damn much torque? its just there for when you need it. nobody is going to make you only hear it full blast or twist your arm. but I would think if you broke some shit with bass waves that you did good.

 

A boosted w-body and having your personal belongings damaged are two completely different things. The reason why people have SPL competitions in cars is because they can do it without breaking something. Try taking an SPL competition system from a car and hooking it up in the home with the right kind of amplification, and unless you're living in a castle, you will start breaking things. You will have to secure everything that's on any shelf and everything that's hanging from a wall. Its just not a good idea, besides the fact that you'd be causing hearing damage from those levels of SPL.

 

To my knowledge, *no* songs will hit that low unless you're playing an LP record and the sound will come from the record itself. I don't know of a single song that will play below even 15hz. Have you seen what a 7hz test tone looks like on a sub cone? Its barely moving at that point. I'm not sure if you know what a 7hz test tone really "sounds" like. The fact is you can't even hear it. In fact, the human ear stops hearing frequencies below 20hz, and instead starts "feeling" pressure below that point. You're telling me some twisted up artist out there took the time to synthesize a tone below 20hz just for those special people who own a sub amp that doesn't have a low pass? I don't think so.

 

The 15" IDQ sub I'm building for my home theater will provide more bass than anyone will ever need for music (if you value your hearing), and would satisfy most critical home theater listeners. Anything more powerful than that will typically require a dedicated, treated listening room. Most people who go all out also don't use a JL 7 for home theater use if they want to hit frequencies as low as or below 20hz, because the W7 runs out of xmax in a ported box at around 22hz. Very few movies (like black hawk down) will play subsonic frequencies below the range of human hearing, and for theaters like those, people usually need closer to 2-6 18" subs, not one 13".

Edited June 2, 2011 by xtremerevolution

[Garrett Powered]

I would never port an enclosure. I am a fan of sealed.

 

 

all that porting does is take a high pitched bass note and distorts it to sound lower than it was actually recorded at. I consider it distorted.