jman093 Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) Just showing a couple pics of what my Potenza RE-01R's look like in the front after today's auto-x run. I had them inflated to 41psi and still over half the sidewall is folding onto the ground. I highlighted the little arrow on the tire that points out where the tires are supposed to roll to. I think the car is just too heavy for the 225's and it understeers really bad. I'm going to throw some more negative camber at it up front for next time. Rear tires have no scuffing on the sidewalls at all at set at 35psi. Edited May 23, 2011 by jman093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Need some 8" wide wheels and some 245's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTRCOOL Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Amen man I'm hoping to take the 89 to Blackhawk farms raceway on an open day just to get a feel for highspeed turning. This year I want to do more than run in a straight line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Something tells me you don't have poly control arm bushings installed and its absolutely destroying your front end camber in hard turns, contributing significantly to the sidewall roll you're already getting. No, I am dead serious, those poly control arm bushings make an absolutely massive difference. They are not an option, but a MUST if you auto-x this car. Ask Adam, ask Bob, ask SirMichi, ask anyone that has done it on these cars. The stock rubber bushings flex way too much, and its even worse of they're old. You **need** to get poly control arm bushings in there before you ever auto-x that car again or you will waste a lot more money ruining tires. Edited May 26, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonpro03 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 Need some 8" wide wheels and some 245's THIS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I just got to test some 265's on 9" rims. with poly control arm bushings. I kind of want to get this thing on a race track too in order to fully test it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 *Front heavy, FWD car for 800 Please, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Using a 92 load rating tire on such a heavy front drive car and expecting it to not roll on the shoulders:think: A proper load rating tire and wider to boot, and poly bushings and prolly stiffer front springs and you should be decently set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Something tells me you don't have poly control arm bushings installed and its absolutely destroying your front end camber in hard turns, contributing significantly to the sidewall roll you're already getting. No, I am dead serious, those poly control arm bushings make an absolutely massive difference. They are not an option, but a MUST if you auto-x this car. Ask Adam, ask Bob, ask SirMichi, ask anyone that has done it on these cars. The stock rubber bushings flex way too much, and its even worse of they're old. You **need** to get poly control arm bushings in there before you ever auto-x that car again or you will waste a lot more money ruining tires. Looky what showed up on my doorstep today! I plan to get them on before next run June 5th. I don't plan to ever run the Monte, but I also bought a full set of uppers and lowers for it as well. I complain about understeer in this car, but the Monte might as well not even have a steering wheel as it does you no damn good. Using a 92 load rating tire on such a heavy front drive car and expecting it to not roll on the shoulders:thinking: A proper load rating tire and wider to boot, and poly bushings and prolly stiffer front springs and you should be decently set. 225s are pretty small for a 3400 lb car, but I think the load rating is ok. These are are-x tires and have a really stiff sidewall (making them a pain to get mounted). I once had a valve stem leak out all the air in the tire and I didn't even know it as the tire was still standing. I drove the car 25 miles home and when I got home the tire was still standing up with zero pressure and hardly looked low. But yeah, I know I need poly's and springs as I do I think the bigger problem is camber gain. The poly's should help and I'm gonna throw some more negative static camber at it. I obviously wouldn't have to run as much negative camber with stiffer springs, but the coilovers will have to wait. I'm currently running FE3 springs minus a coil on your recommendation in a thread and like the results. The car still has a real comfortable ride and also has a good stance. It rides and performs WAY better than the ST lowering springs I had before. Edited May 27, 2011 by jman093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 Yea I was impressed with what just a cut coil on our front springs can do. And with our cars having little caster, you definately want 1-2 degrees negative camber due to the low camber roll effect of our caster. And Autox or not, a 92 load rating isnt nearly enough IMHO. Thats something a Sunfire would roll on. 95-96 load rating should be bare minimal, even with concrete sidewalls, you were still rolling over the sidewall. And im sure a set of Potenza RE-11's can be your friend:thumbsup: Then again you would need to step up to a larger rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 And im sure a set of Potenza RE-11's can be your friend:thumbsup: We're gonna start a relationship after the RE-01R's have had enough! I've really liked these so far, and have currently driven 25,000 miles out of the 140 treadwear tire, so I'm staying in family for sure and getting the replacement RE-11's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I know it's covered in the FAQ thread but which part # is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 I just got to test some 265's on 9" rims. with poly control arm bushings. I kind of want to get this thing on a race track too in order to fully test it out. When did you get poly control arm bushings installed? The only people I was aware of were Adam, SirMichi, and myself. Using a 92 load rating tire on such a heavy front drive car and expecting it to not roll on the shoulders:think: A proper load rating tire and wider to boot, and poly bushings and prolly stiffer front springs and you should be decently set. Agreed! I know it's covered in the FAQ thread but which part # is that? For the poly control arm bushings? Looky what showed up on my doorstep today! I plan to get them on before next run June 5th. I don't plan to ever run the Monte, but I also bought a full set of uppers and lowers for it as well. I complain about understeer in this car, but the Monte might as well not even have a steering wheel as it does you no damn good. But yeah, I know I need poly's and springs as I do I think the bigger problem is camber gain. The poly's should help and I'm gonna throw some more negative static camber at it. I obviously wouldn't have to run as much negative camber with stiffer springs, but the coilovers will have to wait. I'm currently running FE3 springs minus a coil on your recommendation in a thread and like the results. The car still has a real comfortable ride and also has a good stance. It rides and performs WAY better than the ST lowering springs I had before. What poly control arm bushing kit is that? I know the one I used included lowers and uppers for the g-bodies, but wickedbuick found the lowers-only kit somewhere. I don't recall what that part number was or if the parts are an identical fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 For the poly bushings yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah, that is the lower only kit, 3-3171G for $32.95. I did also buy the upper and lower kit you guys were using, 3-3156G, for $63.95, but that is going on the Monte SS to help its atrocious understeer. I bought them off of Summit. I'm going to try and get them pressed in tomorrow. They threw up pics today: I should actually be in E street prepared instead F street prepared. Edited May 28, 2011 by jman093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Meaning/difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Meaning/difference? Just saying the class is labeled wrong in case anyone paid attention to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 I didn't have much luck today with the poly install. I did the left side first. The front one went in piece o cake. The rear one which is a bit thicker than the hole in the control arm ripped when was being pressed into the arm and it actually bent the arm some as well. I didn't realize it was doing this until too late. I didn't try to install the rear one on the right side although I did throw on the front one. That ripped rear one is kind of half-ass in there and actually really solid, but I imagine its going to wear out pretty quickly, but at least I can drive the car. Didn't affect the alignment either which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) I didn't have much luck today with the poly install. I did the left side first. The front one went in piece o cake. The rear one which is a bit thicker than the hole in the control arm ripped when was being pressed into the arm and it actually bent the arm some as well. I didn't realize it was doing this until too late. I didn't try to install the rear one on the right side although I did throw on the front one. That ripped rear one is kind of half-ass in there and actually really solid, but I imagine its going to wear out pretty quickly, but at least I can drive the car. Didn't affect the alignment either which is good. Did you read my writeup? I went through this issue in VERY specific detail. Read the write-up again here: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/41614-The-Official-Poly-Control-Arm-Bushing-Writeup? And if you still can't figure out why, read my 7 page thread here: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/39160-Poly-Control-Arm-Bushings-on-1st-gen-W-body? This project took me 4 days to complete. Hell, the write-up has been on the front page of the forum for a very long time now. It should also be noted that the writeup was for the upper and lower kit. I make absolutely no guarantees that the lower only kit will work the same way as it may be different. I doubt its different, but I did make sure to mention that to anyone looking to get this done. Its also why I asked in the first place, but you got started before I had a chance to answer. Let me know if you have questions. Edited May 30, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Did you read my writeup? I went through this issue in VERY specific detail. Read the write-up again here: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/41614-The-Official-Poly-Control-Arm-Bushing-Writeup? And if you still can't figure out why, read my 7 page thread here: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/39160-Poly-Control-Arm-Bushings-on-1st-gen-W-body? This project took me 4 days to complete. Hell, the write-up has been on the front page of the forum for a very long time now. It should also be noted that the writeup was for the upper and lower kit. I make absolutely no guarantees that the lower only kit will work the same way as it may be different. I doubt its different, but I did make sure to mention that to anyone looking to get this done. Its also why I asked in the first place, but you got started before I had a chance to answer. Let me know if you have questions. Thanks, Andre yeah I read the writeup on the homepage before I did it. The LCA only bushings I bought are the exact same as the bushings in the complete upper and lower kit you were using. I checked them before I started against the complete upper and lower kit I bought to actually put on my g-body, they are the same. I don't know why the bushing bent the arm pressing in, it just didn't seem to stretch out and neck down like yours in the description. I'll just press them back out when I have time and get a new arm and enlarge the hole a bit to get the rear one in if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Thanks, Andre yeah I read the writeup on the homepage before I did it. The LCA only bushings I bought are the exact same as the bushings in the complete upper and lower kit you were using. I checked them before I started against the complete upper and lower kit I bought to actually put on my g-body, they are the same. I don't know why the bushing bent the arm pressing in, it just didn't seem to stretch out and neck down like yours in the description. I'll just press them back out when I have time and get a new arm and enlarge the hole a bit to get the rear one in if I have to. Wait, what? I didn't need to use a press to press in one of the bushings. I left the stock sleeve on there, melted out the rubber, and pressed in **only the poly bushing and sleeve**. The outer sleeve that came with the kit is way too large to fit in the control arm, so you have to keep the stock sleeve in there. In fact, if you use a bolt and some washers like I instructed in the writeup, this should seriously be a cakewalk. Adam did this, SirMichi did this, apparently GerrettPowered did this, and I did this, and none of us had any issues destroying our control arms. You should have absolutely no problems pressing in a greased polyurethane bushing into a sleeve without bending or destroying the control arm. If you followed every step I described in my writeup, the only other possibility I can think of is that ES may have modified the dimensions of their kit. Mind taking a few pictures? Good to know the lower-only kit has the exact same parts BTW. This will be helpful for people since the price of the full kit went up $20 since I did the mod. Let me know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Wait, what? I didn't need to use a press to press in one of the bushings. I left the stock sleeve on there, melted out the rubber, and pressed in **only the poly bushing and sleeve**. The outer sleeve that came with the kit is way too large to fit in the control arm, so you have to keep the stock sleeve in there. In fact, if you use a bolt and some washers like I instructed in the writeup, this should seriously be a cakewalk. Adam did this, SirMichi did this, apparently GerrettPowered did this, and I did this, and none of us had any issues destroying our control arms. You should have absolutely no problems pressing in a greased polyurethane bushing into a sleeve without bending or destroying the control arm. If you followed every step I described in my writeup, the only other possibility I can think of is that ES may have modified the dimensions of their kit. Mind taking a few pictures? Good to know the lower-only kit has the exact same parts BTW. This will be helpful for people since the price of the full kit went up $20 since I did the mod. Let me know how it goes. Yeah definitely save money and get the lowers only. Same stuff, even the same numbers stamped on the ends of the bushing. I did get the bushings finished tonight. The one that got stuck I pressed back out, fixed the control arm and I enlarged the holes in the control arm and used the outer sleeve that came with the poly bushing. No trouble on other side. I was probably just in too much of a hurry and screwed something up using the installer pressing it in. gonna run again Sunday and see if there's much difference. I didn't get a good performance alignment like I wanted, I was just able to make sure everything was still in good spec so front camber is still nearly straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Yeah definitely save money and get the lowers only. Same stuff, even the same numbers stamped on the ends of the bushing. I did get the bushings finished tonight. The one that got stuck I pressed back out, fixed the control arm and I enlarged the holes in the control arm and used the outer sleeve that came with the poly bushing. No trouble on other side. I was probably just in too much of a hurry and screwed something up using the installer pressing it in. gonna run again Sunday and see if there's much difference. I didn't get a good performance alignment like I wanted, I was just able to make sure everything was still in good spec so front camber is still nearly straight up. Ugh, you could have saved so much time if you had actually followed my instructions. There's absolutely no disadvantage to using the stock sleeve and pressing in the poly bushing. Soooooo much easier than having to enlarge the hole in the control arm. But, at least they're done. Get an alignment and take some hard turns. You should notice a pretty large difference in understeer reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 2, 2011 Report Share Posted June 2, 2011 Yeah definitely save money and get the lowers only. Same stuff, even the same numbers stamped on the ends of the bushing. I did get the bushings finished tonight. The one that got stuck I pressed back out, fixed the control arm and I enlarged the holes in the control arm and used the outer sleeve that came with the poly bushing. No trouble on other side. I was probably just in too much of a hurry and screwed something up using the installer pressing it in. gonna run again Sunday and see if there's much difference. I didn't get a good performance alignment like I wanted, I was just able to make sure everything was still in good spec so front camber is still nearly straight up. Ugh, you could have saved so much time if you had actually followed my instructions. There's absolutely no disadvantage to using the stock sleeve and pressing in the poly bushing. Soooooo much easier than having to enlarge the hole in the control arm. But, at least they're done. Get an alignment and take some hard turns. You should notice a pretty large difference in understeer reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Yeah, that is the lower only kit, 3-3171G for $32.95. I did also buy the upper and lower kit you guys were using, 3-3156G, for $63.95, but that is going on the Monte SS to help its atrocious understeer. I bought them off of Summit. I'm going to try and get them pressed in tomorrow. They threw up pics today: I should actually be in E street prepared instead F street prepared. Doesn't EP have a lower time multiplier than FP? Seems like you would run higher in the rankings in FP. EP = Raw time x 1.16 (est.) Vs. EF = Raw time x 1.20 (est.) or something like? It's been years since I autoXed so I maybe way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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