Surging Lumina....SOLVED!...NOPE UNSOLVED!

[98LuminaLTZ]

I had the same issues with a 92 Lesabre, a 96 Rivera, and my 98 Lumina LTZ all with 3800's, its always the coils or wires. The 3x00's are great engines, but the ignition is always a problem, I see you changed plugs already, but the wires and coils deteriorate too, and act worse when humid or wet since at that kind of voltage spark can jump through the air much easier then, and remember spark will always take the shortest path to ground it can. Dont know about prices in your area, but I was able to get a used set of coils off an 07 lucern with 20k miles for $40 (would have been close to $100 new), and new AC Delco plug wires for in the area of $20-30, pretty cheap and easy fix. I know you said plugs were already done, but to be honest those almost never go bad with under 150k on them these days and that probably wasn't needed, but coils and wires ive seen crap out well before 100k.

[urbex]

I can't remember why we had a tune-up done... There was a reason, but I don't know why. Might have even been because it was in, and my dad didn't think it looked easy to get to the rear plugs, I don't remember. It did have 120k on it at the time so it probably could have used new plugs soon enough. Although one plug they put in did go bad within a few thousand miles...so I wonder how good the ones they put in were. Without taking one out, I have no idea what they are now anyways. But yeah, I figure I might as well get new plug wires anyways since they're 12 years old with over 150k on them.

[urbex]

Ok so I've put some coil packs from the junkyard on. Well today it was hot and humid, but at this time no rain. I was heading up a hill so I'm not sure if it was from me pushing on the throttle or engine load, (wait, wouldn't that be the same thing? Oh well...) But it did it again. I guess I'm going to have to try putting the junkyard ICM on as well...maybe that's the issue? I don't know what else I can check. Next I'm moving towards plug wires, then MAP sensor. I hope I can find it soon, because after that I'm out of ideas. I just don't know, could bad plug wires cause it to do that just based on engine load? I mean, I know they could if it was wet... Unless the humidity did it?

[Leo090]

Hi, I have a similar issue. My 97 Lumina 3.1L drives flawlessly in the WINTER, but as soon as it rises over 80 degrees I get similar psychotic engine. I can be cruising at 60 mph and all of a sudden my engine idle rises and it becomes difficult to brake and as soon as I let go of my brake, my car accelerates without me pushing the pedal. If i just pull over and shut off my engine, and restart, the issue disappears until an hour later of driving. I believe this issue is related to yours and everyone elses. I found a really neat link and I think this is the problem.

 

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee9945e/341

 

 

Slips, Harsh Upshift or Garage Shifts, Launch Shudders, Flares, Erratic Shifts and Intermittent Concerns, DTC P1811 or P0748 Set (Replace Pressure Control Solenoid Valve Assembly) #00-07-30-002B - (07/19/2002)

 

If you fix this , it would be awesome. Its also kinda hard to fix issues like this when the 3100 engine has gasket leaks, which can also cause engine hesitation. But since i restart my car and the problem goes away, maybe its either sticking or faulty sensors that only act up when they are overheated or experience heavy load or the issue discussed in the link.

[urbex]

Yours sounds a lot like the TPS. (Throttle Position Sensor). I replaced mine but it didn't help, but my friends car was doing that exact same thing...you'd take off at a light just by letting off the brake and it'd go up to 30mph. His was the TPS, and I'm guessing that's what yours is.

[Leo090]

This issue only happens on really hot days and so i steer away from fixing it until it becomes an ongoing hazard. I wanted to add that my car stalls from time to time if i try and use the A/C during really hot days. It will start high idling and then might stall when the car goes under 10mph. Ill look into cleaning or changing the TPS. How much does a TPS go for, and you think I can install it myself, i hate giving mechanics money for things i can do myself.

 

 

 

Also, My car experienced your symptoms, I get different symptoms depending on outside temp, weight load and type of driving (calm, agressive) I also can be just cruising at 50 and then feel a slight accelaration by the engine. Or ill be flooring going up a hill and it will only max out at 55 until the slope minimizes and then the engine will kick in and go faster. Weird

Edited July 20, 2011 by Leo090

[RobertISaar]

a 97 lumi 3100 (4T60E) doesn't have a pressure control solenoid.

[Leo090]

Ok, but its still listed amongst other vehicles with that issue. check out the link.

 

If this problem gets too annoying during the summer, i may change my TPS, but I still dont get how that can affect my Idle and my stalling when using air conditioning.

 

I read somewhere that the Module is bad.

[RobertISaar]

it only lists 97 due to the LQ1 equipped cars having a 4T65, which does have a pressure control solenoid.

[Leo090]

Ok, I guess thats one more thing we can check off as not the solution

[Leo090]

I just dont understand how outside temp can affect whether or not i have the issue. How come its a seasonal issue. In the winter I get my engine nice and hot and never have this possible TPS issue. Could hot weather really put such a strain on my engine. I mean i have good coolant and everything, just makes no sense

[urbex]

IIRC, the TPS cost me $40 for a Delco one from the dealer. It wasn't much more than the Autozone one, so I figured I'd get NOS. To change it's as easy as unbolting the old one, and putting the new one in. I don't think you can clean it, as the part that goes bad is electrical and internal.

[urbex]

So, I hate saying this of fear that I may jinx myself, but I think I solved the problem. I noticed one night that when it surged the MAP sensor reading dropped to about 8 or so (which is a similar effect to what happens when you WOT). I thought that was odd. Also, on just regular driving it would read around 11 or 12. Well I got a MAP sensor from the junk yard and I noticed at regular driving it seems to read a little bit higher, and guess what? Not a single bit of surging since! I guess that would make sense if moisture would affect it since there's moisture in the air...

 

Hopefully I didn't jinx myself, but it's been a couple weeks and we've had a lot of downpours that I've driven in with no issues. Thanks to everyone for all the help!!!

[AL]

Woot!!

[urbex]

Woot!!

 

Tell me aboot it! Was driving me crazy!!!! (And it's a short drive....)

[BXX]

MAP values should drop when an engine stumbles or surges IIRC.

 

But it doesnt mean it was having issues.

 

Funny thing though, your PCM barely even uses MAP values. It just occasionally references them to determine WOT AFR and to error check the MAF

[Fellowmann20]

I will check this solution out (I'm about ready to try anything). I was reading up on the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor, and the symptoms seem to make sense to a fouled one. The sensor provides engine load and barometric pressure readings to the ECU. Its not too expensive to replace and hopefully I will do it before the end of the week. Will reply back with the results.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Fellowmann20

[urbex]

Yeah, the only thing I can figure is that when it's raining out the air pressure would be lower which must have had something to do with causing issues. Let us know if it takes care of it!

[urbex]

Ok well...yeah, MAP sensor wasn't the issue.

 

I've noticed now since I took off Matt's coils and ICM that there is more stumbling on idle again, and it's surged on me twice now...quite noticeably today when it was nice and sunny out...no moisture! It only surged once when I had those coils/ICM on, and it wasn't quite the same...and I was going uphill so the TCC might have been locking up normally when it happened. I think I'm going to buy them from him and put them back on, since it did seem to be running better with those.... Try them again for a while.

[thikstik]

Sorry if this already mentioned, but have you checked fuel pressure?

PS-Your HHR is delivering some good mpg. Is that combined driving?

[urbex]

I have not checked fuel pressure, no. I probably should I suppose...

 

And yeah, that is combined driving for the HHR. Granted I do drive VERY easy on it (slow take offs, coasting, no speeding) but I do that in the Lumina as well.

[thikstik]

I have an 83 pu too. i need to get off my lazy duff , and put a 700r4 in place of its 350C trans. The 305 in that thing surprises me in its towing power AND its ability to burn fuel.

[urbex]

Yeah mine has a 350 in it my dad swapped in when we used to go camping and we'd tow a trailer. Tell me about burning fuel!!!! The gas mileage I got in my sig on it was REALLY babying it... Pretty much driving around 50mph on back roads. I NEVER take the truck on the expressway...it gets close to 8mpg then...

 

I will admit though, there's nothing like the roar of a V8...

[thikstik]

Re pickup...yea, a good thing we could do to increase mpg/performance besides a 700 trans, would be to bolt on some vortec heads. We got the last of the carbed dinosaurs! not good!

[urbex]

Yes... Carburetor = the devil!!! Although I did get a brand new Edelbrock for my graduation and ever since I really haven't had issues. Vapor lock used to be a bitch with my old one! And of course it never happens when you're in a convenient place to stop..usually middle of a busy intersection...

 

Gas mileage and no a/c was the reason I bought the Lumina. I just couldn't stand to DD that for more than a year. I'd love to put a different trans in, but money is an issue...and since I don't drive it much (only 150 miles this year!) I wouldn't see much savings.