jmil1974 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Ok, been researching this a bit. It appears that either of these is mechanically possible and fairly easy, direct bolt in. LS4 - I'd want the engine, trans, ECU, axles, fuel pump, harness, and cluster. Would seem to require some tedious wiring whether I kept the AFM or disabled it. L67 - same deal as above but far fewer wiring revisions. In either case, what would be the best years/models for the easiest conversion? Any other help in pointing me the right direction would be appreciated. Thanks!! Edited March 28, 2011 by jmil1974 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 seeing as how the L76 never came in FWD, i'd say its not an option. However, if you meant the L67, just sell your car and buy a Regal GS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I vote for ls4 and go rwd while you are at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 And supercharge it while your at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yeah because it clearly makes sense to re-fabricate the entire car to make a RWD LS4 motor on a century. Sell the century, buy a Regal GS. It will be cheaper, a whole lot easier, it will look better (Regal > Century), and you'll have a better resale value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yeah because it clearly makes sense to re-fabricate the entire car to make a RWD LS4 motor on a century. I think that it is a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Me too, A century is worth it!! Think of the value of a RWD Century... Supply and demand my friend, supply and demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Twin turbo LT1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Twin turbo LT1 .... Could always do a jaguar v12 swap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to eaton Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 lol you guy's are dicks.. but wasnt someone gonna tt a lt1 and put it in a TGP..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmil1974 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah, L67 - fat fingered it, sorry. I didn't ask for advice on whether you think this is a good idea or not, or for some smart *** opinions. I was hoping for some actual answers to my questions from people with experience with this platform. I was under the impression after some lurking that there is real knowledge here. So far, 9 replies and zero value. Let me give some context: This car is paid for and the price is 100% unbeatable. I like stealth. I have some modest skill and access to a shop, a GM electrical tech, and an EE. This car is not leaving, it simply needs to be more interesting to drive every day and I am under no time pressure. Let me be more specific: Would both of these drivetrains bolt in, or almost, as I suspect? Are there any MAJOR electrical incompatibilities - like switching to CAN BUS or something like that? This is the kind of help and advice I am looking for. The LS4 would be WAY more interesting but I am trying to figure how much harder it will be than the L67. I like good natured ribbing as much as anyone but if you don't have any actual knowledge to contribute, please refrain from hitting reply and typing stuff. Edited March 28, 2011 by jmil1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to eaton Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 l67 is going to be your better bet, you could find a wrecked GTP for 500-1,000. and have motor/transmission/wiring then just unplug from one car. un-bolt the sub-frame, and bolt it into the Century. Get the l67. it has a better after market, its going to be cheaper to find. cheaper to mod. and the blower whine is pretty cool. Bad thing is the 3800 sounds like a wet fart if the exhaust is left alone. 2 14 inch glass packs in place of the mufflers make them sound pretty nice. With the l67 it weighs less, eats transmissions a little less (not much though) they both have the 4t65E HD. Deff get the transmission also as the l67 will kill the 4t60E in the car pretty quick if you beat on it at all. also remember that the l67 is going to need premium fuel but can get 32-34mpg hwy with the 2.93 gearing (stock) if you want some burn out fun get a 3.29 gearing from a Grand prix GT for some insane burnouts. Also if you go with the l67 go ahead and get a set of speed daddy headers on ebay (205$ shipped to your door) and then you can start modding, the exhaust is one of the most restrictive things with the l67. after the headers slap a 3.4 pulley, Cai, 104al plugs, 160 t-stat, good tune and say hello to the 13's and a reliable DD. If i were you id get the wiring from a wrecked l67 regal (and pcm) do not use a 2003 transmission, they will need a 2003 pcm, 1997 GTP'S have a diff blower, if you find a deal on a 1997 motor get it. there is not much difference. anyways get the higher flow GTP fuel pump also (not a need, but something to make stuff a lil better) Just get on cl, find a 1997-2003 Grand prix parts car (wrecked) then swap it over, it will be very strait forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 well, in true noob fashion, your first post was about an engine swap. Which are always fruitless endeavors. However, my suggestion of selling the Century to buy a Regal is by far the cheapest option. If you wanted an L67 swap, you'd need the cradle, trans, motor, axles, and likely a fuel pump. Add that up and you still have a lesser car than a Regal. The LS4, i dont think the cradle would swap over so you are talking custom fab. Not to mention the engine and trans cost much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmil1974 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 My requirements are my own and I know what they are and why. I know the realities involved in a swap and have addressed them all except the technical ones, those unique to W-bodies. I am trying to see what the technical issues are and hoping to enlist some educated help. Please stop with financial assessments, they don't apply as this car was inherited - zero cost. It is low miles, 31k, and resale on these and most GM POSs (which I have owned many) is a non-issue as it's not going anywhere. I don't care about anyone's judgment of a > or < car, I care about how to make this one go from merely practical to interesting. I've been able to find a few low mileage wrecks that I could get all I needed for $4000 or less. Has anyone done one of these swaps? My searches have turned up nothing yet. Given that the LS4 swap is from 2nd gen W Body to 2nd Gen W Body, it's hard to see too much fabbing being needed. If anyone has knowledge otherwise, I'd be grateful. L67s I would guess would be less, but I've not looked into it as much. I am guessing it would be much easier on the wiring and a true bolt in, with cradle. Thank you, Andrew. I may be a noob here but not to car forums and I am pretty familiar with LS motors in particular. It is my first post because I take delivery next weekend. I've sorted out maintenance as I used to work at a GM dealer and I have my audio planned as well. A motor swap is really the only other mod/upgrade worth thinking about, given my particular situation. Again, any actual experience or at least real knowledge based on my questions would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I guess I am not understanding why selling the car and buying a Regal GS (its also a w-body) isnt even an option for you... With 31k miles, the Century still has some value... You would be much farther ahead to start with an L67 car... You can find Regals pretty cheap too... You may even end up making money on it depending on what the Century would go for... Since your basically buying a Regal drivetrain and fuel pump, why not just buy a Regal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmil1974 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) So far, Andrew offered one tidbit, which I already stated and know. Addicted to Eaton has offered some valuable details which I did not, THANK YOU!! Frankly, I don't NEED to explain to anyone. Further, I have already explained this about 95%, as much as I'm going to and more than I needed to. Finally, I can explain it to you all day long but I can't understand it for you. I'd hoped for more useful information from guys who clearly have some extensive knowledge. This is called R&D, a mini-feasibility study. I didn't come on here and say, "I'm gonna do this, look how cool it's gonna be! Bet you can't wait to see it!" I asked some direct, relatively simple questions to see if I know what I think I know. I came in with some knowledge but I'm looking for a reality check from some guys experienced with this platform, that should say something. There is/will be some useful data here: http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138176 Car-parts.com has several LS4 drop outs for $2000 and under with low mileage so this is looking better. Frankly, there are more around than I thought. The L67 kits are way more plentiful but not THAT much cheaper for low mileage units. I'm coming out of a cammed LS3 Camaro. I'm realistic about this car not ever being close to that but a V8 is highly preferable, torque steer be damned! Thank you again to you guys actually offering some useful info, it is MUCH appreciated. Edited March 28, 2011 by jmil1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 honestly, I have never seen an LS4 in a 2nd G, I am not sure if there is room.....I know that the LS4 is pretty much shoe-horned into my GXP and I think the engine bay is slightly larger....also, if find out the LS4 will fit, I highly recommend buying a built trans before installing the setup instead of using the stock trans regardless of the mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyfloyd Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 For the ease of it, i would do the L67. I would look for a Regal GS or Grand Prix GTP for the swap. Those are the 2nd Gen w-bodies, and you should be able to just have the subframe from either dropped and mounted under your car. You would need to swap the fuel pump, and re-do any hoses that changed, as well as Engine accessories, as they mount different, but you can probably get those from the car you get the drop out. Essentially, the Regal and the Century are the same body, with different cladding on them. As for the LS4, this is not in a 2nd gen Grand Prix, but rather the 3rd gen, so there are notable differences. That being said, it might work as a drop out, but more than likely will require you to use your original subframe, or get one from an L36 or L67 car, since the 3.1 subframe is different from what I am told. This one will have a higher initial cost, and a higher installation cost, and the aftermarket is not as great, so I wouldn't recommend this one for anything other than the "To Be Different" factor. And I once read about a guy on RegalGS that cut the roof off his century and installed a regal roof just so he could have a sunroof (he was a body man at a dealer too) so wanting to keep the century and make it faster isn't that unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Best bang for the buck will be L67. As already said, you can literally swap subframes with the suspension, engine, and trans already together as an assembly in a weekends time. a few more days on the very very few wiring changes, an alignment, and you are done. LS4 would require a bit more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakdown Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I guess I am not understanding why selling the car and buying a Regal GS (its also a w-body) isnt even an option for you... With 31k miles, the Century still has some value... You would be much farther ahead to start with an L67 car... You can find Regals pretty cheap too... You may even end up making money on it depending on what the Century would go for... Since your basically buying a Regal drivetrain and fuel pump, why not just buy a Regal? Then swap badges, grille and tail light from Century to Regal and no one will know the difference. If you need help with that swap, talk to Nunzi . . . you know Nunzi right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmil1974 Posted March 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Can anyone point me to some of the differences in the 2nd and 3rd gen? Particularly chassis, engine, crossmember, etc? Even though the wheelbases are identical, I can see this will require some eyeballing/photos, measuring, and careful checking - even if complete dropouts have the same cost. I had guessed that the differences would be minimal, rather like 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies, but perhaps that is not the case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to eaton Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 the 04+ GTP's have the same sub frame design as 1997-2003 but most are aluminum. there are no cross members on these cars. the gen V is a better blower its on 04+ GTP's the l32 Also has 280hp vs l67's 240hp But they also have a lot more torq management and can be pretty picky when abused. a.k.a its rated at more power but the l67 has less abuse stuff so most of the times will beat the l32. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Has anyone done one of these swaps? My searches have turned up nothing yet. Then I'm going to guess no. Edited March 28, 2011 by urbex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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