tornado_735 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) The '96 is having some serious issues with the VATS and it's getting worse with every passing day. As of right now, I would like to bypass the bastard, but the key I was provided when I bought the car has no resistor chip in it, so I have no way of knowing what resistor to get. Doing some research turned up Pass Key, Pass Key II, Pass Lock, and all sorts of other things. Did they do something different in 1996? Anyone else know how I am going to be able to check which resistor I will need to get? Thanks! Edited March 24, 2011 by tornado_735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 vert Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Sounds like it's already been bypassed if you don't have a chip. I'd look under the drivers side of the dash for anything that may have been added. Aftermarket alarm, etc. Two orange very thin wires normally run to the ign lock cylinder. It may have been disconnected and a resistor put inline to the security module. Sorry, two white thin wires in an orange sleeve. Edited March 22, 2011 by 95 vert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliasCT Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 From what I've read it's a pretty easy (and cheap) fix to bypass the module the right way (without using just a resister)... Hopefully someone one here has done it, but here is a guy online that posts up a pretty elegant solution. He wants WAY too much money for it, as apparently you can buy all of the components for this for under $1... But he posts the schematic, so whatevs! http://newrockies.com/the-problem-and-the-solution/diy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I thought the same thing about it already being bypassed, but the only orange wire I can find under the dash has two very small white wires inside it, and that leads to a connector with wires that disappear into the wiring harness underneath the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 So I know what I need to do, I just don't have any idea about what resistance my VATS module is since I have no chip in my key. Damn it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 So the white wires with the orange insulation are definitely for the VATS module. I pulled the plug with the engine running, but nothing happened. I turned it off, and turned the key back on, and sure as shit, the security light was flashing with no start. So I'm pretty much down to wondering if my key has it's own resistance. I'll attach some pictures of the key in case anyone has any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Guess what? I did the resistor bypass on my Monte Carlo nearly 5 years ago for my remote start bypass. I don't see how a solid state component such as a resistor will ever really fail under normal circumstances. And for the $37 he wants for the instructions, meh, I'll spend the $.10 on a Radio Shack resistor. I know he's talking about bypassing the Theft Deterrent Module, but honestly, how many of those have you hear of failing? Just my .02 As far your orange loomed wire harness, ya thats correct. Whatever you do, you don't want to cut and splice the white wires that are closest to the lock cylinder. They are a very fine wire, like that used for wheel speed sensor harness. They are difficult to solder for some reason. If you look a little further downstream, there should be a plugin. After that, the wires are a different strand/ gauge type which are easier to work with. Personally, I would just go the resistor route, if that is, you can figure out how yours is working using just a blank key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 That key has no resistor in it. There has to be a resistor soldered inline somewhere between the key cylinder and where you unplugged the VATS wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 That key has no resistor in it. There has to be a resistor soldered inline somewhere between the key cylinder and where you unplugged the VATS wires. Yeah, the only problem is that the orange insulated wire runs all the way from the plug under the dash to inside the steering column. Just for the shit of it, Mike (MonteCarloDude) and I ohmed out the key, and it's got a resistance of 0. Shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Unplug it under the dash and ohm out the side going up to the column, with the key in the ignition. See if you get 0 again. If you do, then it's bypassed after the plug, more than likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 That is a blank metal key you will get a resistance of 0 because it has no chip of any kind. With a VATS key you can actually see the chip on it. Try pulling the steering wheel?? Not sure why someone would bypass it all the way up there. But its gotta be done there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) That is a blank metal key you will get a resistance of 0 because it has no chip of any kind. With a VATS key you can actually see the chip on it. Try pulling the steering wheel?? Not sure why someone would bypass it all the way up there. But its gotta be done there somewhere. Yeah, my 1994 GP had the resistor, and my 1991 Olds 98 had the resistor. I'm going to have to pull the fucking steering wheel. While it's off, I might as well replace it since the padding is all fucked up, and replace the multi-function switch. This is money I really don't want to dump into this hunk of shit. Edited March 22, 2011 by tornado_735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliasCT Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I only suggested that guy's diagram, not his service... IMO it's too expensive for cheap ass parts from Radioshack. I had heard of the resister trick failing, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Unplug it under the dash and ohm out the side going up to the column, with the key in the ignition. See if you get 0 again. If you do, then it's bypassed after the plug, more than likely. I completely missed this post, but had the exact same idea. We ohmed it out several different times, and it always came back to 2.53 and the closest in the list is (curiously) 2.370. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 i haven't verified the guys diagram, but it does look at least somewhat correct and it is uber cheap to build. IC1 is a 5 volt regulator, IC2 is a 555 timer, i can grab the values for anything else in that diagram in about a heartbeat anyways. but the 555 circuit is solely for providing a 50Hz 50% duty cycle signal to the PCM to allow the injectors to fire. it sounds like you're dealing with starter disable relay that's controlled by the PASSKEY module... i may have a cheap/simple solution for that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I only suggested that guy's diagram, not his service... IMO it's too expensive for cheap ass parts from Radioshack. I had heard of the resister trick failing, thats all. I see. Well ya, I'd agree with building it then. I just thought it was kinda spendy for the instructions is all I guess. And FWIW, I've used resistors to bypass multiple GM vehicles with both Passkey (1 and 2), and Passlock (1 and 2) and all have worked flawlessly. But, I do exclusively solder and shrinkwrap everything too. Butt-connectors are meh; "Scotch-locs" belong in the garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 So apparently the 2530 ohms that we got out of the wires leading from the ignition cylinder are outside of the accepted variance of anywhere between 2.275-2.485. There was somewhere I read that you need to expect a variance of 20% with resistors, so if this has already been bypassed, then it would be within tolerance. I think I'm just going to replace the damn cylinder and call it a day. I've got to replace the turn signal switch and the steering wheel anyway, I might as well go full circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 (edited) STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP FUCKING PANICKING, NOW, or else I might have to fucking call you and talk to you for three fucking hours. YOUR VALUE IS OUTSIDE OF THE ACCEPTABLE RANGE. YOUR RESISTOR BYPASS IS NOT WITHIN THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS. YOU RESISTOR BYPASS DOES NOT WORK CORRECTLY. START BACK HERE: WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING UNHOOK THE @#^$#&(@ WIRE. DO NOT TURN CAR OFF UNTIL YOU HAVE THE SECURITY LIGHT SOLIDLY ON. WITH THE SOLID LIGHT ON, YOUR CAR WILL BE IN THEFT DETERRENT FAILSAFE MODE (you can live the rest of your life with the light on, if needed....... apparently it will stay in this mode for eternity, even with the battery unhooked, unless you fix it.) this can take from an instant to a minute... Once the light is on, you are home free. turn car off. I have heard of bypasses being made with POT resistors(adjustable), which can change over time, thus now being out of range. Your resistor should most likely be #8 which is nominally 2370, and must be within the 2.275-2.485 range to function. therefore... grab a pigtail from another column next time you go to the j/y and make a NEW bypass. /THREAD Edited March 22, 2011 by Crazy K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 OHAI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STOP FUCKING PANICKING, NOW, or else I might have to fucking call you and talk to you for three fucking hours. /THREAD If you had answered your phone, the /thread would have been 10 minutes before it started How certain are you that it will not completely fail if I lose battery power? If that were the case, I'd pull the cluster (which I have to do anyway) remove the security lightbulb, and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 because the MC went without a battery for ~6 months at a time, was in fail-enable before, and was still in it afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 because the MC went without a battery for ~6 months at a time, was in fail-enable before, and was still in it afterwards. That's all the information I need! Thanks to everyone!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 indeed. the VATS module must store it in EEPROM/Flash PROM along with the intended resistor value that it picks up when it's still fresh/new and reads/stores the value it sees via the key cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 You called while I was in work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 You called while I was in work. As did you call me while I am at work I still need to replace the steering wheel and turn signal switch. I can say the hell with worrying about the ignition cylinder for the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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