88red4cyl Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 My Lumina has always had this issue, it's just been getting more and more persistent as of late... You turn the key to start the car, and nothing... All the electronics act like the car is starting (dash lights, radio, etc.), but the starter does nothing... Sometimes if you hold the key in the start position for a few seconds the starter will kick on and act normally, other times you just have to wait 5-10 minutes and try it again and it kicks instantly over.. This used to happen maybe 5 out of a 100 starts when I first got the car... Now its probably somewhere near 40 out of 100 starts... The rest of the time it starts normally with no issues... I have no Security light on though, nor does it flash when starting the car... The starter was new in March 2009, along with a new battery and alternator since the dist. o-ring leaked oil over my old starter and took the whole system down in the process.. Where do I start looking? It's no fun going out in the morning to go to work and wondering if the car will start or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I have a similar sounding issue, but with a '91, no VATS. My thought is that its the shifter interlock isnt reliably working so the car doesnt think its in park. I take the key out and jiggle the shifter and it starts. I dont know if thats actually the issue, but it seems to work kinda reliably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntotenmadman Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I know exactly what your going through. You can goto this website this guy hsa a permanent solution, without having your PCM reprogrammed to remove the security. As soon as I get my trans done i'm going to do this. It seems like it's worth the money. http://newrockies.com/the-problem-and-the-solution/diy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 sounds like what the MC did about twice a year, always on the coldest days... likely the starter enable solenoid, which is controlled by the VATS module. and hahahahaha, fuck paying $37 for instructions on how to make a circuit that makes a 50Hz 50% duty cycle signal to emulate the VATS "Key good" signal, i decribed it like two days ago on TGO. it quite literally costs less than ~$.50 to make the circuit and i'll draw the damn diagram if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 AHHHHH! http://newrockies.com/buy-from-me/ and mofo wants $180 for one he built! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 May be a VATS issue, although if thats the case the security light should be coming on solid when you are having the problem. Have you tried starting it in neutral when the problem occurs. The same thing happens in my TGP and it will ALWAYS start in neutral. I assume its a problem with the NSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) My Lumina does that occasionally. Not very often, and not nearly as severe. Sometimes I'll go to start and there'll be a slight delay (a couple seconds) from when I turn the key, until it does anything...but like you said all electronics work and everything. I'll be interested to see what the issue is. Sorry, I don't have any clues... Ignition switch? Edited March 8, 2011 by urbex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sounds more like a dead spot on the armature of the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 solution 1: unplug the orange two wire cord at the base of the column while the vehicle is running, do not shut off until security light turns on (instant up to 3 minutes). if the security light is on when you turn the car off Vats will be stuck in failsafe mode (might reset if the battery dies?) if problem continues to occur it is not the vats. bypass or plug back in. solution 2: bad contact in A) Neutral safety switch, which can temporarily be remedied by wiggling or moving the shifter, or defective starter let me state my 92 lumina had one of those funky anti-theft card slot things at the base of the column using 18 gauge wire to carry the starter circuit. The wires had fused and melted and worked until they totally failed leaving me stuck to figure out what went wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 FWIW: i have had the battery out of the MC for up to 6 months at a time, previously the VATS module went into fail-enable mode, hooked battery back up, still in fail-enable, so that status must get written to FLASH PROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 FWIW: i have had the battery out of the MC for up to 6 months at a time, previously the VATS module went into fail-enable mode, hooked battery back up, still in fail-enable, so that status must get written to FLASH PROM. Oh? so emergency fail safe of unplugging the vats wire if it is acting up is actually a long term fix??? i got new keys cut for the 94 and 95 to correct the problem previously. while i am at it, lets assume the vats is bypassed... what key blank can you get cut for $.99??????? or what cylinder can you swap to to ditch the pill key????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 well, it's long term in that it permanently disables the PASSKEY system. i prefer to have it working. and i have no idea what key cylinders can be swapped in, never tried to deal with that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I compared the 95 passkey cylinder to the 95 silhoutte's I think it would actually work if you shaved the column's opening back 1/8 of an inch.... Rather than have the thing left unplugged, I would rather use a resistor bypass... but my current key started acting up again. If you are speaking from an antitheft standpoint... I have alternate fuel cut off methods to protect car from theft. Last but not least... a lock smith once told me you can bypass the vats by attaching the passkey wires to a 9volt battery and frying the module!?!?!?!? i need to try this sometime with an extra module and pcm and anything else that can be damaged.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 kill the module doesn't sound like a very ethical approach. and i have MULTIPLE security measures in place to prevent theft on the MC.... but i'd still prefer to have as many as possible functional, especially one the vehicle is equipped with from the factory and has a dash light for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 FWIW when I had this issue and thought it was a VATS problem it was actually loose connections at the starter and solenoid Crank those effers down and loctite them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 May be a VATS issue, although if thats the case the security light should be coming on solid when you are having the problem. Have you tried starting it in neutral when the problem occurs. The same thing happens in my TGP and it will ALWAYS start in neutral. I assume its a problem with the NSS. I had thought of that the first time it did it several years ago since my buddy had a problem with his NSS... Still does the same thing in neutral... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1979lee Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 My 98 lumina did this one time a few yrs ago, it was just a dirty key, and contacts in the lock cyl, i blasted it with compressed air, then got a q tip and some rubbing alcohol worked it in and out of the lock cyl and bamo, Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hmm...the key would make sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88red4cyl Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hmm...the key would make sense... I would think if this was the issue, then the light would flash when turning the key... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I would think if this was the issue, then the light would flash when turning the key... Not necessarily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted2bass Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Oh? so emergency fail safe of unplugging the vats wire if it is acting up is actually a long term fix??? i got new keys cut for the 94 and 95 to correct the problem previously. while i am at it, lets assume the vats is bypassed... what key blank can you get cut for $.99??????? or what cylinder can you swap to to ditch the pill key????? You can just get a regular key cut once VATS is bypassed. You may have to grind the chip off though or it wont fit in the machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummer Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 ive had this happen repeatedly with my monte until i started using the spare set of keys and there was no security light at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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