HHO Hydrogen Fuel Cell How To / Installation and Data Results

[digitaloutsider]

mythbusters tested it it didnt work

 

thats all i can input

 

That's what they want you to think..

[guntotenmadman]

I personally know that my old '98 dodge ram diesel got over 40% increase in fuel economy. It's not bunk! And yes the car companies do plenty of things to limit gas mileage they have close relationships the oil producers and investors, why would they want to hurt that? If your going to do it you will need to change the values in your ECM. You can get a chip through www.water4gas.com without this "chip" your gains will be limited. I thought about the extra draw on my alt in my dodge and considered installing a capacitor like one used for an amplifier, but I didn't have any problems at all.

[Garrett Powered]

damn mythbusters haterz

[White93z34]

After this I'm going to take to just watching this thread, but I love the people who are all "And yes the car companies do plenty of things to limit gas mileage they have close relationships the oil producers and investors"

 

Has anyone ever heard of CAFE? And Federal regulations mandating that a automakers cars MUST get a average fuel economy of Xmpg, or is that all part of the waterjar-big oil conspiracy?

[GP1138]

Is this a joke??

[jongrappin]

That's what they want you to think..

 

mythbusters? i think everyone is one step behind the cloud,

 

digitaloutsider, you are prolly right!

 

see the mythbusters explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/ydEkV-E0mP8

 

and please please STOP with the theory if its possible! this is not a debate tread its suppose to be a build thread.

[RobertISaar]

LOL, that proves nothing other than there's even more evidence that trying to use electricity to split water into HHO, then use the HHO to power the engine, the engine power the alt, which makes power that the HHO system consumes is still a failed concept.

 

and if this is supposedly a build thread, then build damnit, prove us wrong.

[slick]

mythbusters? i think everyone is one step behind the cloud,

 

digitaloutsider, you are prolly right!

 

see the mythbusters explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/ydEkV-E0mP8

 

and please please STOP with the theory if its possible! this is not a debate tread its suppose to be a build thread.

 

Build it. Post pictures on here. Show us fuel consumption use with throttle %'s from live data scans before and after and prove us wrong.

 

Otherwise, ban.

[jongrappin]

Can someone point me to the software and data cable needed for the odb1 logging,(i assume i can only log on odb1 and not tune or how does that work again on a TGP)

 

I will purchase the stuff and try it.

 

I have personally met a few people that have these on their vehicles, they all claim some gains.

 

Still dont see how people refute the idea?

The alt produces extra electricity, then this current combined with the electrolites causes the h2o2 gasses that go into the intake. this h2 gas is combustable and thus add combustion to the engine that would have otherwise not been there. the o2 should register this and adjust the fuel to run leaner. creating what i presume is some extra energy, weither its measurable or worth while world be the real question?

 

I want to try this and prove myself wrong or right.

 

I don't know if things are lost in translation but seems like people are yelling at me on this tread and i wonder why this is?

 

project list:

ODB1 logger

HHO kit?

 

Does anyone have recommendations for the electrolytes to use?

Should i use plates or coils?

Whats the ideal volumn of the unit that i should use

[jongrappin]

Can someone point me to the software and data cable needed for the odb1 logging,(i assume i can only log on odb1 and not tune or how does that work again on a TGP)

 

I will purchase the stuff and try it.

 

I have personally met a few people that have these on their vehicles, they all claim some gains.

 

Still dont see how people refute the idea?

The alt produces extra electricity, then this current combined with the electrolites causes the h2o2 gasses that go into the intake. this h2 gas is combustable and thus add combustion to the engine that would have otherwise not been there. the o2 should register this and adjust the fuel to run leaner. creating what i presume is some extra energy, weither its measurable or worth while world be the real question?

 

I want to try this and prove myself wrong or right.

 

I don't know if things are lost in translation but seems like people are yelling at me on this tread and i wonder why this is?

 

project list:

ODB1 logger

HHO kit?

 

Does anyone have recommendations for the electrolytes to use?

Should i use plates or coils?

Whats the ideal volumn of the unit that i should use

[virtuetovice]

Link us to what eBay kit you're considering?

 

By the way, Faygo comes in 3 liter bottles.

[NTRCOOL]

Wow Guys I really need to get back in the game on the HHO Shifter has been bugging me to start back up:rolleyes:. I need to rebuild my one that I was running in my 89 TGP ( I took it out to clean it and dropped it on the garage floor. ) Plus I started a Joe Cell generator using big stainless fender washers and nylon hardware. My basic principal with HHO is not to try to run the car completely off Hydrogen but to assist the fuel consumption with a cheaper fuel, kinda like a hybrid. Now I have motivation:dance: now I need to take some new steps:think:.

[Schurkey]

I have personally met a few people that have these on their vehicles, they all claim some gains.

Because they WANT to see gains, otherwise they've wasted their time, money, effort, and enthusiasm. Their bias overcomes the scientific process.

 

Still dont see how people refute the idea?

The alt produces extra electricity,

1. The alternator does NOT produce "extra" electricity. It takes energy from the engine, converts it to electrical current 'n' voltage AS NEEDED. More electricity needed, more work done by the engine to produce it.

then this current combined with the electrolites causes the h2o2 gasses that go into the intake. this h2 gas is combustable and thus add combustion to the engine that would have otherwise not been there. the o2 should register this and adjust the fuel to run leaner. creating what i presume is some extra energy, weither its measurable or worth while world be the real question?

The energy harnessed by burning the H2 and O2 will be less than what is required to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen in the first place. Net LOSS of usable energy due to conversion process losses.

 

I want to try this and prove myself wrong or right.

Excellent attitude. As long as you are scrupulous about your methodology, you'll prove the "haters" were right all along. If you let your emotions interfere in your processes, or if you're just plain sloppy, you'll get ambivalent or positive results depending on how large the mistakes you make are.

 

I don't know if things are lost in translation but seems like people are yelling at me on this tread and i wonder why this is?

Because what you're proposing has already been tested; and comes up lacking. It doesn't make sense based on known principles of science; and it doesn't work in the lab, either. (by "doesn't work", what I mean is that YES it is possible to separate hydrogen from oxygen by running a current through water. Yes it is possible to re-burn the resulting H2 and O2, and capture "some" heat energy. Overall, the energy required to separate the hydrogen and oxygen is more than you can re-capture; so the cycle requires additional energy to continue to function. Therefore, while it "works"; it produces a net LOSS of usable energy instead of producing energy gains.)

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, the tragedy here isn't about "haters"; it's about a failed educational system that is incapable of teaching basic science principles such as the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of matter and energy/No Such Thing As A Free Lunch; and incapable of teaching higher-level thinking skills.

 

If there is a miracle here--somehow capitalizing on hitherto unknown properties of matter and energy--rest assured that NO ONE else has been able to make the breakthrough; and plenty have tried. But what the hell, even Einstein had good and bad days. Edison had about a thousand failed attempts to create the light bulb...and yet here I am bathed in the warm glow of incandescent light. Let's face it, its harder and harder for the garage tinkerer to earn patents; just as it's harder and harder for a garage band to hit the Top Forty.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Schurkey

[Hairdo12]

Build it. Post pictures on here. Show us fuel consumption use with throttle %'s from live data scans before and after and prove us wrong.

 

Otherwise, ban.

 

I would love to see this considering how I have pointed out many reasons why it is destine to fail. However if you can build it and provide conclusive evidence it works... I will submit; I am confident without a shadow of a doubt it cannot yield positive results.

 

I will even throw some suggestions out there for your build: use stainless steel screen used in screen doors. Have many layers spaced out about 2mm and alternate + and - for each later. The stainless steel will hold up better to the massive amounts of corrosion this process causes. The screen patter will also provide optimal surface area. If you can use AC from an invertor that would allow the metals to hold up even better. Use distilled water mixed with the right ion solution (search the internet for it). Using the wrong ion solution and hard water can also produce some pretty nasty gases along with two parts h2 and o2.

 

I say spend your money on 6 new spark plugs and an new air filter. You'll yield better MPG results than building this contraption. Unfortunatly you're blinded by what you want to believe rather than taking a step back to review all the facts.

 

There are schematics online for a two transistor aldl cable that will interface with a serial port on a computer. Get some sort of free software or odb1 scanning.

[slick]

I would love to see this considering how I have pointed out many reasons why it is destine to fail. However if you can build it and provide conclusive evidence it works... I will submit; I am confident without a shadow of a doubt it cannot yield positive results.

 

I will even throw some suggestions out there for your build: use stainless steel screen used in screen doors. Have many layers spaced out about 2mm and alternate + and - for each later. The stainless steel will hold up better to the massive amounts of corrosion this process causes. The screen patter will also provide optimal surface area. If you can use AC from an invertor that would allow the metals to hold up even better. Use distilled water mixed with the right ion solution (search the internet for it). Using the wrong ion solution and hard water can also produce some pretty nasty gases along with two parts h2 and o2.

 

I say spend your money on 6 new spark plugs and an new air filter. You'll yield better MPG results than building this contraption. Unfortunatly you're blinded by what you want to believe rather than taking a step back to review all the facts.

 

There are schematics online for a two transistor aldl cable that will interface with a serial port on a computer. Get some sort of free software or odb1 scanning.

 

I think you failed to read that I was teling him to prove us wrong.

 

I have an engineering degree. I've taken thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, chemistry, and about every other damn class that there is. Not sure if you simply misread my post, but I know that it will not work.

[digitaloutsider]

I don't think he was calling you out on that.

[Hairdo12]

No I wasn't calling you out. I hit you up for a quote because I was agreeing with you. What kind of degree do you have and from where? I have a Computer Engineering degree from the University of Buffalo.

[RobertISaar]

two transistor ALDL is failbus, only works with very specific laptops.

 

MAX232 ALDL works with a hell of a lot more systems, i base my design off of the schematic posted by techedge.

 

software: tunerpro RT.

[slick]

No I wasn't calling you out. I hit you up for a quote because I was agreeing with you. What kind of degree do you have and from where? I have a Computer Engineering degree from the University of Buffalo.

 

Bachelors, Mechanical Engineering, University of Toledo.

[Galaxie500XL]

One other problem, which makes being certain of results difficult. The way you drive can have a large effect on fuel mileage.

 

I'll give an example. The '94 LeBaron I drove daily averaged 25.5 MPG when I drove it.

 

Occasionally, my wife would drive the car THE SAME ROUTE, and average 22 MPG.

 

That's a rather large difference, with NO CHANGES to the car. I got nearly 16% better mileage driving the SAME car the SAME route.

 

Now, apply this to our problem here. Whether I intend to or not, there's a strong chance I'm going to modify my driving habits while checking for results, because I'm paying closer attention to the way I'm driving.

 

How do you overcome that unintended bias when testing such a system?

[RobertISaar]

there's a simple solution to that...

 

while datalogging and in a steady state (55 MPH on a flat road), flip the system on and off, watch what it does for fuel trims and estimated MPG.

[pwmin]

How about using the flow the water pump provides to spin a water wheel to produce electricity to use to power the HHO thingie?

[guntotenmadman]

Power loss due to a higher draw on your alternator? At idle an 80 amp alternator is producing about 45-50amp, now the vehicle is using about 5 for ignition, another 6-7 for the fuel pump, and if your fan is turning at it's highest rpm(witch only happens when sitting in heavy traffic or your ac is on, if so add another 18amps)That's only 29amps.

Obviously the more accessories turned on the more amp draw. The alternator is already producing 40+amps and the car doesn't sit there at idle very often. So if the HHO system is drawing another 20-25 amps you might loose about .5 horsepower at idle, thats not much of a power loss. Roughly 1HP=11-15amps.

The whole concept behind an HHO fuel cell is to boost MPG not HP and to save us money at the gas pump.

[RobertISaar]

okay, but how much actual HHO gas is created when pushing 20 amps into the container?

[NTRCOOL]

okay, but how much actual HHO gas is created when pushing 20 amps into the container?

Don't forget once the unit warms up the amps should drop.