mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 you need about 23 moles of gasoline for a gallon of gas and one of those 5 gal tanks can hold like 7.5 moles. Browns gas is over 5 times as energy dense as gasoline. So rounding down, a 5 gallon tank at 125 psi could have the same energy as a gallon of gas. Does your car use a gallon of gas idling for 10 seconds Robert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 LOL, busted... but from a realistic standpoint, let's assume we're going to power all of this from the vehicle's electrical system alone, since that is what most people would do, yes? now, 125PSI is roughly 8 1/2 extra atmospheres of pressure, so we can just multiply that by the volume of the air tank and come up with the amount of unpressurized(since to pressurize would use even more energy and we'll assume people don't want to hook up battery chargers/maintainers to continue this process when the engine is not running) HHO gas required to produce the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 "if the factory could, they would" Not so much. You have to think about this with the mind of an automobile company CEO. "Would it be cheaper to develop and perfect HHO technology or just keep adjusting stuff with our current gasoline engines? Forget production prices." The production of electric vehicles has just now taken off on an acceptable scale simply because the battery technology is at the right point[its being developed and perfected by many different industries], and it's getting pretty cheap to produce. It's also pretty easy to market. "Plug it in at night just like you do with your cell phone". We just aren't at that point with hydrogen tech yet. As for these eBay HHO kits, I've seen youtube vids where the amount produced by those is barely enough to power a lawnmower. I've also seen instances where people have made their own electrolysis cells, much larger than anything available on eBay. The results weren't bad. I'm not gonna sit here and plain out say that HHO hybrids are bull shit. Just don't go blowing your hard earned cash on the first kit you see on eBay. If you really want to do an HHO TGP, do your research thoroughly, do things right and document the results. Then let us know. Science is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 we'll assume people don't want to hook up battery chargers/maintainers to continue this process when the engine is not running) HHO gas required to produce the same amount of energy as a gallon of gasoline... right? I WILL NOT ASSUME THIS. How is this sticking it to the man if you arent stealing his power for your car!?!?!?!?!?!? Come on, you missed the whole point! STICKIN IT TO THE MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You aren't stealing it....you still pay for electricity. Well unless of course you've modded your meter to run waaaaay slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I WILL NOT ASSUME THIS. How is this sticking it to the man if you arent stealing his power for your car!?!?!?!?!?!? Come on, you missed the whole point! STICKIN IT TO THE MAN LOL, okay, but i was trying to get all technical and shit too, because if i'm correct, then it takes 42.5 gallons of HHO at atmospheric pressure to make the same energy as one gallon of gasoline.... but that seems wrong to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 that sounds about right to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 ok, so i'm not crazy then... well, maybe a little, but whatever... so, since we are sticking it to the man, we'll need to dumpster dive for some Jif peanut butter jars.... the 28oz ones seem to have an interior volume of roughly 20oz, so we'll need about 272 of those to contain 42.5 gallons of HHO at atmospheric pressure, maybe a little bit of pressure, i'm not sure how well they would hold up to it yet... then we can travel like 25 miles before borrowing more electricity to make more gas... shit, it's like having an all electric car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 2 or 3 liter bottles are pretty good pressure vessels you can get them pretty high in pressure before they pop, thats why they are good for those dry ice bombs, because they can store alot of energy in the form of compressed something or other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You guys are overlooking something... Hydrogen by itself burns slowly as it mixes with oxygen. The Hindenburg didn't just vaporize in a split second. Now if you have a mixture of hydrogen gas and oxygen in the same container, you won't be lasting very long. Oxyacetoline is stored as oxygen in one tank and acetoline in another for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 SO WE HAVE TO DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF 2 LITER BOTTLES? No biggie. you can get those free anyway. Ive always wanted an array of 2 liter bottles. Now i have a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 3 liter bottles exist you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 so... assuming we can easily seperate the hydrogen and oxygen after creating it, we'll need roughly 161 2 liter bottles in total to keep them seperate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 3 liter bottles exist you know. i've only EVER seen them in Kroger stores, but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 WAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I have a 3 liter bottle makeshift gas can. Looks like im already ahead of you guys, storing/transporting fuels in a 3 liter bottle. Does this mean I win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Why did I bother reading the last two pages? My headache is now worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I'd expect nothing less from this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 my head hurts as well, it seems like alot of people know a little about alot. lots of scientific assumptions.... but no one here has actual HHO knowledge, experience or experimentation.. Lets get to the build.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 but no one here has actual HHO knowledge, experience or experimentation. so because we haven't wasted our hard earned money on a scam and can understand the scientific basis as to why this is a bad idea, we're the ignorant ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 my head hurts as well, it seems like alot of people know a little about alot. lots of scientific assumptions.... but no one here has actual HHO knowledge, experience or experimentation.. Lets get to the build.... Cool story, bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 And I find it funny that you refer to "actual HHO knowledge" when people have cited the proof in the science behind this method. That's like saying "I've heard if I walk off a cliff backwards, I won't fall down" - and we all say "Uh, gravity will pull you down no matter how you walk off the cliff", and then you start saying "OMGZ YOU GUYZ HAVEN'T TRIED IT YOU IGNORANT FOOLS WTF"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 my head hurts as well, it seems like alot of people know a little about alot. lots of scientific assumptions.... but no one here has actual HHO knowledge, experience or experimentation.. Lets get to the build.... you seem to be paying attention to the massive amount of banter, and not to the few people who posted FACTS, or are you just ignoring those? You speak of us as not having any data but all you have provided in defense of this is anecdotal evidence, and calling those who provide the facts "haters". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Yes dude, comon... for each person trying to sell plans for those devices there are twelve explaining why they don't work. There are even plans on the internet to get free electricity from radio waves. Maybe those plans combined with HHO plans would solve the problem. Please tell me you can see how ridiculous that sounds. The only way you can increase efficiency (fuel economy) is to harness the energy lost and use it. In this case you're stealing mechanical, and electrical energy when it actually has a purpose. The only true way you could possibly increase efficiency of the motor is to use the wasted heat energy expelled. Your alternator produces 13.8 volts constantly where as the amperage is constantly variable depending on draw requirements. Your 105 amp alternator only really supplies 60 amps during normal operating conditions. 55 amps are not lost because they are never created. If the current draw needs to go up due to additonal load (IE head lights, defroster) then the alternator requires more mechanical energy from the motor to produce the additional amperage. Get yourself a small electric motor from an erector set or something. Spin the motor by hand and see how easily it spins. Then connect the + and - ends of the motor together with a wire and give it another spin. An electric motor used like this acts as a generator. The wire used acts as if there is full load on that generator. You will notice that the motor will not spin freely at all because it requires much more mechanical force to turn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake91 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 mythbusters tested it it didnt work thats all i can input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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