jongrappin Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I am in the process of putting a HHO setup on my TGP. I have a 90 TGP, Yellow top injectors, topgun chipped, cat removed, K&N and Walbro Fuel Pump. I want to put HHO on ASAP. I am capable of making a setup myself but for $100 there are nice kits on ebay. Does you have any advice on what to buy or how to install for optimum fuel efficiency increase. Does anyone have results based on a current setup? Lets start a Sticky Tread going. Thanks Jonathon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Read up, you are wasting your time and money its snake oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Read up, you are wasting your time and money its snake oil. indeed. the electrical current necessary to break down water into HHO gas is FAR more than what you get back from the engine and will eat up your battery/alt like a banshee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtuetovice Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 x2...or 3... ? Anyway yeah. If you want a hydrogen powered car, just cut the shit and buy a hydrogen tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I somehow dont believe what you guys are saying. Everything i have read says that it works. I have not heard of it causing battery or altinator problems... Are you presumptions based on personal experience or from research. If either cause, please provide more information. From my research i have done, seems like alot of people are using HHO. All claim to have MPG increase... Most claim 20-30% increase, others upto double. for the small cost of $100 or so I am willing to see the results myself. Someone on TGP forums claimed to go from 18MPG to 24 with HHO. I want to compile information, results and project builds. Tons of people do this and it works, please do not refute the possibility without proper referencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Don't believe me, believe the laws of thermodynamics. http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml http://www.savedpennies.com/?p=186 http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/4276846 Believe me if I could get 40% Better fuel economy by stuffing some wires in a peanut butter jar full of water I'd be there. Edited March 2, 2011 by White93z34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 A good tune (the Jeff M tune is pretty rich) will net you some decent economy gains if that's what you're looking for. I have the old KAZ hot tune and get 25 -27 MPG hwy in my TGP. Listen to Chris, he speaks the truf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If this was even remotely possible of working, don't you think they would come from factory? I think this thread is started as a goof... everyone on the planet older than 16 and not driving a 91 civic hatch back knows those things are bogus. GM invested how much money in displacement on demand that yields 7% to 9% better economy? Must have been a total waste of money if some Jabroni on the internet says you can build one of those devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonpro03 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I think NTRCOOL has HHO on one of his TGPs. Ask him about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I've looked at that before.... and think it should be bunk... BUT>>>>> if you use one and get better miles per gallon overall, then the following would most likely be true: the energy used to make HHO gas is not significant in that it is energy that is otherwise going to waste. OR the HHO gas mixed with the fuel /air mixture catalysis a more efficient reaction that generates more power than the energy lost to making the HHO gas. (maybe it atomizes the gas better?) pretty dubious to me.... but the only way to know is proper testing. Is it possible? maybe.... so is pig flight, right???? just cause no one has seen a pig fly doesn't mean they don't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Alot of people are chiming in here.... This tread is serious Naysayers please stop hating... "if the factory could do it, they would" oldest line in the book, honestly do you think a factory makes the best of quality or quantity? hows your cross over? is the exhaust that comes on the car more efficient than my stock exhaust that has no cat?, plus im tuned..., plus an alternator produces more power than the car uses! from my research the people that have done this, say it works. the other people that havnt tried this claim it doesnt work based little to no research, no trial and many presumptions such as the above. Im 25 year old... When i was 5 it marked the first solar race. Dozens of cars raced from florida all the way to michigan.. this year is the 20th year of the solar race... 20 years ago i though, in ten years it will year 2000.. solar cars... something....? now they are pushing electric cars? what do they burn to create this energy? last note to the haters: Do your research, look up Nikola Tesla Edited March 3, 2011 by jongrappin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 "if the factory could do it, they would" oldest line in the book, honestly do you think a factory makes the best of quality or quantity? hows your cross over? is the exhaust that comes on the car more efficient than my stock exhaust that has no cat?, plus im tuned..., plus an alternator produces more power than the car uses! if it cost SO little to make an engine SO much more efficient, the factory would do it, no questions asked. the exhaust every vehicle comes with has to meet rather strict emissions standards set by the EPA. and an alternator only provides "more power than the car uses!" because you're not dragging the hell out of it trying to use ~14V of DC power to convert water into HHO gas. you start doing that and you'll quickly overheat and kill your alts on a regular basis due to them having to run their regulators at 100% to try and keep up with the draw you're now placing on them. so, you know what we have to say, go buy the shit, keep an accurate and unbiased log of what changes it makes for your fuel economy and be sure to report back to us if it actually does make an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 if it cost SO little to make an engine SO much more efficient, the factory would do it, no questions asked. the exhaust every vehicle comes with has to meet rather strict emissions standards set by the EPA. and an alternator only provides "more power than the car uses!" because you're not dragging the hell out of it trying to use ~14V of DC power to convert water into HHO gas. you start doing that and you'll quickly overheat and kill your alts on a regular basis due to them having to run their regulators at 100% to try and keep up with the draw you're now placing on them. so, you know what we have to say, go buy the shit, keep an accurate and unbiased log of what changes it makes for your fuel economy and be sure to report back to us if it actually does make an improvement. FWIW a local news station installed one of these on a car like 10 years ago, it netted zero gains. While we're at it let's talk about converting our cars to run on water, or using the 100mpg pills in the gas tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) The process is not new, but the application is, to some degree...not exactly sure how Tesla fits into your argument...he was a genius, but pretty much a certifiable nut. The real issue is that you're not going to be able to produce enough HHO to significantly affect your mileage... Sort of like the automotive equivalent of cold fusion. "Hater" is a bit harsh, and in this case, unjustifiable. If you want to do it, by all means do....but you're unlikely to see a discernable benefit. Here's the basic chemistry, copied from Wikepedia...note that MORE energy is required to produce the gas, than energy produced by the gas. Basically, think of a fuel cell, similar to what's being used on spacecraft, in reverse. Instead of combining oxygen and hydrogen to produce water and electricity, electricity is being used to reverse the process. A pure stoichiometric mixture may be obtained by water electrolysis, which uses an electric current to dissociate the water molecules: electrolysis: 2 H2O → 2 H2 + O2combustion: 2 H2 + O2 → 2 H2O William Nicholson was the first to decompose water in this manner in 1800. The energy required to generate the oxyhydrogen always exceeds the energy released by combusting it. Now, it MAY be possible, if you utilized the battery/charging systems used in cars such as the Prius, and built a very large device, basically filling the trunk, you may possibly generate enough HHO gas to do what you suggest, but the cost of the parts, cost of the electricity to charge the system, and the weight penalty for all that equipment would likely negate any advantage. I HAVE studied it. The tiny devices being sold DO generate HHO gas, but not nearly enough to create the gains being claimed. Edited March 3, 2011 by Galaxie500XL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 if you did the big 5 and had a max output of 15 volts then the alternator would actually have an easier time and more efficiently produce the kind of output you need. charge your system no problem and have left over power. but all stock would not be able to even power the car. as restrictive as it is, the alt will just heat up and possibly blow the regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 (edited) Hater?? Did you not read the information I linked to? Also moving this to general as it has really nothing to do with Turbo Grand Prix Edited March 3, 2011 by White93z34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 This is a form of boot strapping. This is basic thermo dynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is almost always lost due to paracitic loss. Here is a breakdown of the energy loss: Chemical energy is taken from the gasoline and converted into mecahnical energy by the engine - best case 30% efficient, 70% engergy lost to heat and friction. Mecanical energy is taken from the engine and converted into electrical energy via the alt. - best case %40 efficient, 60% energy lost to heat, friction and electrical resistance Electrical energy is then used to convert water and ion solution into its elements (chemical energy) - best case: 20% efficent, 80% lost to resistance Do you see the trend here? Each time you convert energy from one form to another you lose tons of energy in the process. Best case scenario is you have super conductors, zero friction and no heat loss.. the HHO gases created do not yield enough stored energy. A gallon of Gasoline contains about 35 MJ/L where as Hydrogen contains only about 10 MJ/L and it takes A LOT of hydrogen gas to create an equivilent of a Liter of liquid. Now you may wonder how a turbo or a super charger can work if its taking mechanical energy from the motor to generate more power... well it doesn't create power, it enables the motor to burn more fuel. More fuel = more units of power avaliable to be converted into mecnanical energy. Hence why boosted motors need larger injectors and fuel pumps that can keep supply up. Sources: EAS308 Thermodynamics for Engineering - State University of New York at Buffalo 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Why dont you just make HHO by plugging in your device at work/mcdonalds/any outlet you have access to but dont pay for and then take it to your car? Seemss like a more feasible and sound plan. and you can screw 'the man' while you are at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 because even a gigantic container for HHO gas gets burned up within minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 duh, compress it. adds to the 'sticking it to the man factor' with moar powar used from his outlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 well, yes, but to make/buy a proper container capable of holding the pressure required to make the contribution of fuel worthwhile isn't going to be cheap, and adds to the whole "if it leaks, it could explode in my face and die" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 first, you are no fun second, portable air tanks for like filling tires up are cheap and will hold at least 8 times as much gas as...a bag...or something...of the same size. fairly light and can be had cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 hmm..... i don't think i've had one that didn't leak at LEAST a little bit.... but i've always got them second(or later) hand... so, that will power the engine by itself for about 10 seconds at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 if it cost SO little to make an engine SO much more efficient, the factory would do it, no questions asked.not true...then anyone could do it and they wouldn't make any money. Corporatism wouldn't allow it if they could stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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