Psych0matt Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) So for any of you that have seen a few of my posts regarding this, I plan on doing pretty much anything and everything suspension wise to my GTP, but I don't know much about suspension. I'm looking at first to spend around 1k in about a month, for front and rear CO's, aaaaaand..... That's about where my knowledge ends. I've been talking to BXX and trying to get some planning going, and will pick up mounts and whatnot that he's making, but I want to get a good rounded start on this and get things going. Any suggestions, or explanations are welcome! I can do a 3.4 alternator, now something new Edited May 23, 2011 by Psych0matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Polyurethane control arm bushings. Adam, Bob, and everyone else who has done this mod can vouch for how great of a difference it really makes. A 22mm rear sway bar along with strut tower bars will also be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 ahh yes, I forgot to mention both front and rear STBs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Matt, as for the FSTB, I have a madman idea:D I can make the front coilover mounts with integral FSTB mounts. The actual STB will be tube steel and will bolt to the mount with heim joints or a clevis on each end. One side right hand, the other left hand threads. Meaning it can be pretensioned which is good for tower stability:thumbsup: Mwahahaha!!! And I have already sourced the steel mount plates that I will use that will be welded to the coilover mount after some cutting/trimming of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 I was going to ask you about that cuz you mentioned it before. I'm in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Matt, as for the FSTB, I have a madman idea:D I can make the front coilover mounts with integral FSTB mounts. The actual STB will be tube steel and will bolt to the mount with heim joints or a clevis on each end. One side right hand, the other left hand threads. Meaning it can be pretensioned which is good for tower stability:thumbsup: Mwahahaha!!! And I have already sourced the steel mount plates that I will use that will be welded to the coilover mount after some cutting/trimming of them. I feel like we covered the preloading here already. I think it was my favorite person mark who brought up the fact that a spherical bearing interface is only going to increase compliance whereas a CS Vert type where its sandwiched in there is going to have less compliance. Who knows whether you want to pretension or not, im sure there are valid points for either side (and then points for which way to pretension beyond that) and its probably on a case by case basis, but I'm pretty sure you will go farther reducing compliance in your frame member than you would with pretensioning. In my racing experience, compliance is a real killer because its lots of movement that you could extremely easily eliminate. Engineers I've talked to from Ford, Jaguar, Moog and small race shops have reiterated this and use this as a key point on which to judge designs. Given one assumes a STB to a frame member, it would then become obvious that pretensioning would be a less favorable practice due to the fact that it would induce internal stresses in the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) I didnt Understand most of that I want it to handle as good as possible, but it will mostly be a street car, so that needs to be in mind a bit. Edited January 24, 2011 by Psych0matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 If you have that much you spend you might also upgrade the rear knuckles to the aluminum 2nd/3rd gen ones per the BobRob write-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 yeah, that sounds good too. The drawback to that is the no parking brake provision, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I planned on doing that. Can that be done later, or does it need to be done at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 yeah, that sounds good too. The drawback to that is the no parking brake provision, right? Getting the setup from a third gen GP should allow the use of a parking brake as they also use an integral brake caliper. I have this setup with new EBC pads, cryo rotors, and SS brakelines in my garage ready to install on my car. I'm just waiting on this weather to stop being so damn cold. I'll update BobRob's thread if it works out or not, but I'm pretty sure it will. I planned on doing that. Can that be done later, or does it need to be done at the same time? Either way. It only can't be done before the other stuff, because you have to have coilovers. It can't be used with the monoleaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 I was told you could make the 2nd gen ebrake work on our cars. Then again, I was not referred to anybody that had done it yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Either way. It only can't be done before the other stuff, because you have to have coilovers. It can't be used with the monoleaf. That's what I thought, but I didn't want to do one thing, and then find out I had to completely redo something again I was told you could make the 2nd gen ebrake work on our cars. Then again, I was not referred to anybody that had done it yet That's the idea. In Bob's thread IIRC he said it's possible, he just didn't need to do it. Me, having a manual, I'd definitely like to have a parking brake. I'm sure 99% of the time I'd be fine just leaving it in gear and whatnot, but I'd like to have a functional one anyways if possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yeah, AFAIK you would just need EVERYTHING parking brake related from the Gen2/Gen3. Prolly the hardest part would be mounting the pedal although I dont see that being that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well I think Im gonna get 94+ brakes tomorrow (if I make it out) anyways, they can always go onto the sedan. But I do want to do that upgrade as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well I think Im gonna get 94+ brakes tomorrow (if I make it out) anyways, they can always go onto the sedan. But I do want to do that upgrade as well Don't do this if you are doing the rear knuckle swap. You use the 2nd/3rd gen brakes, which are at least as good if not better than 94-96 brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Don't do this if you are doing the rear knuckle swap. You use the 2nd/3rd gen brakes, which are at least as good if not better than 94-96 brakes. Yeah personally I would just upgrade everything at once if you can. Hell I even did mine in stages buying stuff when I could afford it. I would just collect everything for the rear first and do the swap, then start collecting everything for the front and swap all that at the same time. Or just collect it all and we can have one hell of a weekend install!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted January 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I'm good with doing it all at once (and I'd love an install party like we talked about), but the fact of the matter is that I currently have no rear brakes. Maybe I'll get 94+ stuff, put it on the sedan, and swap the rears over for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 UPDATE: So I get my bonus next wednesday, so I want to start ordering stuff ASAP. I want to do complete coilovers with a 2nd gen rear knuckle swap, and probably beef up some bushiings and whatnot, and get front and rear STBs. If I can get wave one going of ordering struts/shocks/etc next week, I can work on what I need to get from Bob or anywhere else. BXX - Get a hold of me or post some stuffs up, I'm looking to you for a lot of help/parts ADAM - I've driven your car, so I want your input as well Other guys - Give me any more input you want, I want to do as much as possible basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Do you want me to bring those knuckles this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 YES!!! I forgot you had those! What all is on it? If you have all the brakes and everything I can start tinkering a little bit here and there while its still cold out. Oh, and what do you want for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Theres no rotors or calipers, just the knuckle and e brake stuff, Ill show you this weekend and since I wouldnt be shipping, hows 40? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yeah, get the knuckles from Al, thats a great price. As a matter of fact, thats aboot the same price I pay at the local Pullaparts. http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/46209-Bob-and-Rob-s-Gen-2-Aluminum-Rear-Knuckle-and-Brake-Upgrade.-How-To-with-Pics For christ sakes mods, can I get that thread stickied!!:lol: Now is a good time to run Gen 2 lateral arms for a budget upgrade. Maybe get them from Morad? You can put Energy Suspension poly bushings in them, thats what's on my ride now. Contact Venom or I will to see if he remembers the part numbers. Make sure you pay attention to STEP 18!!!!!!!! If you dont have GMPP arms already, get them. Or I can sell you a set of my budget trailing arms for like $140. Go poly on the front lower control arms per Andrie's writeup. http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/39160-Poly-Control-Arm-Bushings-on-1st-gen-W-body?highlight=poly+control Make sure to get new balljoints and tie rods!! They are uber cheap and a hard corner and a failure of an old OE one equals bad things:thumbsup: For the coilovers, heres the links with parts needed. Coilover Sleeves, Get 4 - http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12452-h.aspx Coilover Adj Nuts, Get 4 - http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12460.aspx Torrington Bearings - Get 1 - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAL-7888-109/ Coilover Springs. 10" 2.5" ID, choice of spring rate, Get 4 - http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/QA1-Precision-Products/Part-Type/Coil-Over-Springs/Inside-Diameter-in/2-500-in/Length-in/10-000-in/Spring-Finish/Silver-powdercoated/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc As for the mounts, I believe I gave you pricing already. Did I? Once I get the money, the turn around is a few weeks. I found US suppliers for the parts so I can get parts without waiting 4 weeks for them from England:lol: I have 2 sets ready to be welded once I get some new proper sized steel tubing for the spring seat:confused: I havent seen my tax money yet, so I havent been able to buy a tubing bender and start on strut tower braces, but I do have a beefy aftermarket unit i'm willing to sell. For the rear, track down an aweb unit for the time being? I can make the coilover mounts to have integral mount points for a STB, but the cost will be a tad more, but the cost for the actual front bar will be less:thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych0matt Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Alright, I'll definitely do some reading/planning this weekend. I'm gonna price it all out and see where I'm at, but so far it's not looking too steep, about what I was thinking. Would it be better to buy rear brake stuff new, or just get JY stuff? I mean I'll probably get new rotors/pads, but perhaps for temporary use though? New tie rods are definitely in the plan, since my one is fudged from the alternator job anyways. Ball joints, sure. So really, the only custom parts I need are the mounts, correct? which I plan on getting from you... Otherwise it's just ordering a bunch of stuff and putting it all together. The rear STB I can acquire whenever, since that can pretty much be slapped on as I find one? So basically Im looking at: -Complete coilovers *-Sleeves *-Adjuster nuts *-1 T-bearing kit *-Springs -C/O mounts -Front STB (which I'm thinking I'd like the integrated mount/bar) -Rear STB -Gen 2 rear knuckles -Gen 2 lateral arms with poly bushings -Gmpp (or BXX) trailing arms with poly bushings -Ball joints and tie rods Look about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 That's looking pretty good. Both Venom and I used junkyard rear calipers with our Gen 2 brake swaps. I used stock hoses, he went with Goodridge hoses. I would just get new pads and rotors to keep things on budget. New hardware is prolly a great idea as well. Yeah, the only custom parts needed are the mounts from me. Ill price out what I need to do integral front STB mounts as thats what Venom wants too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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