adjustable rear trailing and lateral arms 1st gen w-body

[Mach 5]

so Im looking to find some places to buy 1st gen rear lateral and trailing arms w/ poly bushings that are adjustable all I can find are ones for the 2nd gen and ones from Held. I figured that since I race the car at the track and do auto x its a good option to through some performance ones in there. Any inputs welcome!

 

thanks

-Jarek

[BXX]

I have everything to do just this sitting in my garage, except with rod ends instead of bushings.

 

 

 

 

You interested??

 

You can use the Held ones, but they are a bit longer so you would have to have rear coilovers.

[BXX]

oh, and that socket pictured is a my 1/2" drive 19mm deepwell impact socket:thumbsup:

 

Gives a good size reference

 

I have everything, just havent messed with cutting the tubing to length and having them professionally welded up yet as i've been busy fixing up my 95 CS

 

 

I also have everything for front coilover mounts, and already cut and drilled ready to be welded up. Using a spherical bearing instead of crappy mushy bushings for the strut rod. Spring seat is handled with a poly spring isolator

Edited December 7, 2010 by BXX

[Mach 5]

my setup right now is Intrax fronts, poly front bushings, custom coils in the rear "250lb" addco swaybar, and KYBs all around which I would like to eventually do a Koni upgrade.

so now you say all I would have to do is weld it up.. humm I can do that but I now that I have alot of strain on the rear of the car because I 3 wheel corners and slide the rear out at autox events. Do you think this will effect the chassis and arm mount etc..?? the only reason why I consider poly bushings overall. just curious on your opinion....

 

-Jarek

[Mach 5]

now that I think about it my father has I set of solid joints like those on has mini cooper s..

 

hey if you can send me some more pics of these and of what you got to Spoon93@gmail.com that would be great

thanks

-Jarek

[BXX]

Reason your pulling a tire off the ground is due to suspension bind, and needing stiffer spring rates with better dampners.

 

Using rod ends, there will be zero suspension bind. Just smooth smooth movement and positive response.

 

I gotta pull my CS into the garage to change the radiator today. While im out there I will snap pics for ya:thumbsup:

[Mach 5]

ok thanks I will be expecting..

 

yeah this from an auto x event you can see the wheel coming off the ground

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chhntti7aY

[Andrew]

you can use 2nd gen trailing arms IIRC. theres no need for those to be adjustable, and you will gain stability with them.

 

Dont expect much from upgrading the lateral arms. IMO do it only for the adjustability.

[Mach 5]

ok so 2nd gens fit Im gonna check that out would be nice! thanks

I would still like something a little more structural and adjustable on the rear. I know those bushings are shot and have play. I know I will get more from damping too I need to have those rear shocks threaded to put some Konis in there. you can see in the video my lack of damping and I cant lower the rear anymore without issue due to the long travel of the shock..

[Mach 5]

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=1175&catid=138

 

will this work?? I noticed these aren't adjustable

[Andrew]

Zero trailing arms are adjustable. They dont need to be.

 

And you can find cheaper ones on wbodystore.com FYI.

[gpchris]

I have everything to do just this sitting in my garage, except with rod ends instead of bushings.

 

 

 

 

You interested??

 

You can use the Held ones, but they are a bit longer so you would have to have rear coilovers.

 

Want.

[white4d96]

Want.

 

I concur.

Longer lat arms kick the rear track out, right? Or do they increase negative camber?

[Bake82]

I would say they would do both. Kick the bottom of the rear tire out and it's going to add negative camber to the rear wheels. Good for Handling. Will then need to be able to adjust your toe back in.

[Mach 5]

I would think it would add binding with the longer arms because of the incorrect geometry of the arms without the gen 2 knuckle

[BXX]

I used gen 2 arms with gen 1 knuckles withoutt much issue. But go with gen2! Lighter knuckles and better brakes. I'm running them now.

[BXX]

ok, now that Im on my laptop and not my phone I can post more info.

 

to run the arms I am making requires you to do a few things, mainly hardware conflict. Since most of your bolts in the rear arms are either metric or oddball sized SAE, we run into issues. Now im not 100% sure on this yet as I need to grab hardware from the yards to verify sizes and fitment. My bolt bucket has too many Gen 1 and Gen 2 suspension bolts mixed in it:lol:

 

AFAIK now, the holes in the rear subframe need to be drilled out to 5/8" and new 5/8" bolts need to be used. Not hard or expensive. You gotta drop the rear subframe out to install these or any arms for that matter. Takes less than an hour to do on jackstands.

 

The trailing arm bolts may be bigger than 5/8". If they are not 5/8" then they need drilled out to 3/4". Once again, not hard at all or expensive. I got a 5/8" and 3/4" drill bit for like $30 and have used them many times so its not like spending $30 on something for a one time deal.

 

Now here is the fun one. The bolts for the lateral arms at the knuckle. Gen 1 and Gen 2 are the same 14mm IIRC. If I can ream out the misalignment spacers to 14mm so everything is a snug fit, then there are no issues. If I cannot, then there is an option! Gen 1 knuckles will need to be drilled and threaded for a 5/8" bolt. I dunno how much some place will charge to do this. You can do it yourself, but a tap to tap threads into the cast iron knuckle I imagine isnt cheap. Gen 2 knuckles are way easier!!! They are aluminum and just use a long through bolt. So just drill the knuckles out to 5/8" and use a long 5/8" bolt which I can easily get. No threading needed.

 

A little info!!! If you are willing to spend money on these rear suspension links, then there is no reason you should not swap over to Gen 2 knuckles and brakes!!! They are lighter, and have better brakes!! Ive had them on for quite a while. Downside, is you MUST have rear coilovers installed! Once again, if your going this far, you should have rear coilovers as the DIY method of them which I have done twice and others have isnt expensive!

 

Now I can make the links to be adjustable with adjusters, or somewhat adjustable without them. Without adjusters, setting rear toe might be a pain to access the jamb nut at the heim joint at the subframe.

 

I can make them in different lengths, i.e stock Gen 1 length, or go longer like 1/2" or 1" longer or whatever. Longer arms than stock Gen 1 allow you to get the wheel pushed outta the damn wheel well and allow you to use the beefy Gen 1.5 22mm rear sway bar without any binding.

 

Adjustable trailing arms would be nice to help center the wheel in the wheel well once lowered, but not neccessary.

 

Soo, you have options, like..

 

-You want them all adjustable??

-You want only certain arms adjustable?

-How much longer than stock do you want them?

 

Other options...

 

-You want chromoly heim joints??

-You want teflon lines heim joints?? (can reduce noise as non-teflon MIGHT make noise)

--------These options drive up cost and the parts are much more expensive.

 

Now for the costs. These are WITHOUT chromoly and teflon lined heims

 

-Non adjustable arms $550 plus shipping

-All adjustable arms $650 plus shipping

-Say if you want only the rear lateral arm adjustable for easy Toe setting - $595

 

These will come bare steel. You can paint, undercoat, or powdercoat to your choice. I dont have powdercoaters around me to have them done. Also THESE WILL BE PROFESSIONALLY WELDED BY A HIGHLY EXPERIENCED FABRICATOR!!!!

 

If you wondering why these are sooo expensive, thats because the cost of the parts alone is high!!! Gotta pay to play!!

 

If you want an entire set, I am willing to take easy payments!!

 

If you want just like trailing arms, we can figure out the cost. It wont be just 1/3rd of the kit. I give a discount on the entire kit of all the arms!

 

Any other questions, feel free to ask. Except questions like are these really neccessary?? Ill answer that now. Yes they are if you intend to rip corners with complete stability and want the most badass rear suspension links ever made!!!

 

 

I also have stuff for front coilover mounts!! Spherical bearing mount, poly spring isolators. I just have to get them welded up. I have 2 sets ready once welded which I want to have done since im on vacation starting Sunday. Cost will be right around $200 plus shipping. They are non-adjustable. You can ream out the holes in them for caster adjustment if you really desire. Camber adjustment is handled but slotting the strut towers PER GM!! Most of your cars you might discover already have them slotted in the past for alignment reasons.

 

Once I have the front mounts done and the rear links welded, I will be starting on rear coilover mounts. Cost will be roughly the same and will be the same design as the fronts, i.e. badass but streetable!! Ive had the O.E.M. coilover mounts from mark, but due to design, they arent very street friendly over bumps and the tophat design wastes useful travel. His are more strickly RACE!

Edited December 10, 2010 by BXX

[BXX]

I will also be doing front control arms once I complete rear coilover mounts! They will of course be tube steel with heim joints. No bushings as if your gonna spend the money to upgrade, why deal with subpar poly when you can have bind free heims?!?!

 

Before I can do the front arms, I need a tube bender. I already have my eyes set on one, however unless I sell a few rear arm kits, then I prolly wont buy the bender until spring.

[mra32]

You might be able to get away with only a jam nut on the outside of the lateral links if you come up another locking method, maybe something like this:

 

Or you can do something like have the subframe end be fixed (not on a threaded rod end, just a spherical bearing alone) and unbolt the lateral links from the knuckle and make your adjustments in as fine as 1/36 of an inch.

Edited December 10, 2010 by mra32

[BXX]

I think your missing something mike lol

[mra32]

what did i miss?

[BXX]

why would I make it where one is fixed and one had to be unbolted on the other end for adjustment?

[mra32]

Cos unbolting one end seems easier than trying to fiddle with jam nuts in hard to reach spots. Unless this would throw out your alignment. I havent looked at a rear knuckle in a while, but from what I remember, it wouldnt. This is a commonly accepted method of adjustment with adjustable linkages with rod ends. Its done fairly commonly in aircraft applications, where access to the other end would require considerable deconstruction or require access panels in the skin of the plane.

 

just throwin ideas out there...but i guess you arent open to any

[BXX]

well that's why I give the option of ones with actual adjusters. Even those without adjusters still use right hand and a left hand thread at each end, so adjustment is possible, but not as easy as those with actual adjusters.

 

so like you said, if the jambnut at the subframe is too difficult to reach, unbolting the end from the knuckle and turning that for adjustment isn't too hard.

 

also, I gotta order some different adjusters in. I think they will allow for way more adjustment range. The ones I have now allow for only around half an inch. The ones I need to order in should be around one to one and a half inches, which would be nice for people who wanna play with rear wheel stagger and such.

[BXX]

oh and it's not that I'm not open to options, I just didn't realize what you were saying at first. Lol

 

and I'm prolly wasting my breathe in this thread as I don't see anyone spending the coin on these.

 

I just can't match bmr's price. Especially with their's bein adjustable. But then again what I'm doin isn't mass produced with parts and such from suppliers dirrectly. I gotta buy everything from reputable buisenesses.