80's cars and ethanol gas=bad?

[Garrett Powered]

I have enough problems keeping my older vehicles on the road but lately I have been hearing more and more that IAC motors and TB's getting gummed up more often and stalling issues with 1st gen's and poor fuel economy. when I bought my red TGP a few years ago from a family in Idaho, I drove it all the way back to Eugene through central Oregon getting 30 MPG average. since then I have noticed I had nothing but problems with the car and all my cars needing extra maintenance all the time. in fact the 88 has been stalling for the last 6 months and getting worse. that is until last night when I pulled off the air cleaner ducting and saw the TB was all pooped up. took it off and hit it with a can of carb cleaner and everything and the IAC was all nasty dirty. it has the 3400 out of a newer impala but the tank/lines and stuff is all 80's still. it seems like the gas here in Oregon is horrible on 80's cars. my truck (85 silverado) has a small intake leak, but constantly has gummed up carb and backfires all the time and diesels (runs-on after shutting it off). the ethanol dissolves varnish build-up in the tank and deposits it in the engine. when you got over 20 years of that built up in the tank it makes a big difference and I only drive the truck once a month so that makes it worse. I guess E-10 spoils faster and absorbs water. so if I fill it and pay $100 for fuel and let it sit a couple months I will be screwed.

 

I never really tripped out about this until recently but thinking about the Idaho trip with the TGP... come to find out they have real gas over in Idaho still, and that recently changed the law in Oregon. everyone was reassured that it was good fuel and no cause for concern. the gas mileage thing is least of my concerns even though we all are probably being completely ripped off by that. its the money I have invested in my nice older vehicles. they are all basically late 80's cars which I am a big fan of.

 

The government here is a bunch of retarded liberals with a history of scamming all the hard working citizens. they made it illegal to sell real gas until they thought they were going to get sued by a bunch of boaters and recreational vehicle owners who have fiberglass gas tanks. I guess this ethanol is like a nightmare for older vehicles and also dissolves resins in the boat tanks, ruins fuel lines, clogs filters, etc.. so anyway, they got scared and made it (real gas) available at certain places to buy. but I am still having trouble finding a spot where I can fill up and get gasoline. I am so sick of this ethanol crap and cash for clunkers and all the scamming. our leaders we elected are so fucking dumb they probably just scammed themselves as usual and we pay. the situation is NOT good.

 

I think half the problems I run into lately with my cars are related to the fuel being bad. and it has gotten worse and worse over the last few years. now I just heard they are going to only sell E-15 here or 15% ethanol. right now its all E-10. so if I cant get real gas somewhere soon I will be completely fucked and have to sue somebody or something. the ethanol crap does nothing to help the environment or economy. its a waste of time and is shitty fuel.

 

I don't know... I never really paid it any mind until recently.

 

should it be giving me anxiety as bad as it is? I think I will feel better when and if I can find a place to get actual gasoline. it feels like if I don't do something about it, that my life will be ruined.

[nelson480]

i dont have a clue if we have that in north indiana but i do think my car gets lower mileage than it should, and i baby it all the time. i suppose the government WAS thinking when they did this, but werent thinking about the older cars that cant handle it very well, but will run on it.

[mra32]

CASH FOR CLUNKERS WAS A COVER UP!

[Mach 5]

yup.

[Crazy K]

i have observed this same issue. and yes, e-10 to e-15 may be coming...

 

But I also read it as e-15 is being mandated for newer cars with the stipulation that is is up to the each state to opt to still continue to offer regular fuel(or e-10???) for anyone with a pre-2007 car............. Therefore if your politicians are stupid (as they all are, no self respecting person would be a politician) they will not understand the need and importance of having low or ethanol free gas available... to sum that up, it seems to mean that unless your local state politicians understand that there is a need for ethanol free gas it will not happen and you will be force fed E15.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Crazy K

[Night Fury]

ethanol ftl!!!

[GnatGoSplat]

I'm not seeing where E15 is mandated?

http://www.brighterenergy.org/18480/news/transport/e15-ethanol-fuel-not-yet-approved-at-state-level-officials-warn/

 

E10 sucks, I get about 15% worse fuel economy on E10, although for the most part none of my cars have any trouble with it.

 

With a turbo engine, ethanol has some benefits. It has lower BTU, so you can increase the boost higher before knocking.

[CSI_MuNkY]

I think every pump in Ontario says "May contain up to 10% Ethanol", they have read that as long as I can remember!

[Garrett Powered]

I'm not seeing where E15 is mandated?

http://www.brighterenergy.org/18480/news/transport/e15-ethanol-fuel-not-yet-approved-at-state-level-officials-warn/

 

 

I like the comment someone left calling it BIOFOOL! lol! tainted gas is right. most people do not care to even think about the negative aspects of it just like the cash for clunkers. MY DAD for instance, is a very smart guy, but drives a brand new cadillac and doesnt care about older cars or fuel or want to be bothered discussing it. he wanted to support the cash for clunkers, even was so bold as to suggest that I participate! lol. I am sure he would want e15 and fill up with it if he could, he buys the crappyest fuel he can find. it's sad.

 

well I think the 88 is finally fixed though. when I started this thread my anxiety level was through the roof. I got my dad telling me to buy a new car all the time, ripping on me every time I think I got it fixed. he is like oh, fixed for what, a week? I keep dumping money into my 80's fleet because I don't want newer cars, 80's cars are just too much fun. I will continue to resist the urge to buy new as long as possible.

 

last night I finally got the 88 to drive around without stalling. I guess that's all it was.. varnish had dissolved in the tank and gummed up the IAC motor. I kept spraying the spring with carb cleaner and working the piston in and out. black shit kept draining out of the motor for awhile. and after that, the combination of the new ground strap and battery and TB cleaning, and it came out of its six month coma. I drove it down to the supermarket. didn't stall once. almost did, but the voltage didn't dip so it held the idle. I think the aluminum flywheel makes it weird for the idle learn to fine tune itself since it's so much lighter.

[Addicted to eaton]

In most of my cars (99, 95 and my old silverado's) it ran like shit, The GTO handles it a little better and the kia also (both newer), But the fuel sucks!

[Crazy K]

I'm not seeing where E15 is mandated?

 

As I read it.... it is not an official mandate because it has an open loophole, which closes itself if not enacted upon.... to clarify, if appears that if no action is taken by your local state government, there will be no allowances made for cars that need lower ethanol in your state. aka it will happen unless your state lawmakers understand the need for lower ethanol content fuels. failure to recognize the need will result in your state having no less than e-15 available to use.

 

 

p.s. firefighters love fires with ethanol content... they are much harder to put out than gasoline... a pure ethanol fire can even be invisible to the naked eye! win? NOT!

http://www.google.com/search?q=firefighters+vs+ethanol

[Schurkey]

I've run E-10 for very close to thirty years.

 

I've had Z-E-R-O problems with Holley carbs Rochester carbs, Kehin carbs, throttle body injection, and port injection.

 

I've known other people that have had issues with CONTAMINATED SERVICE STATION TANKS where the ethanol mixed with the water that leaked into the underground tank, and then the water got pumped into the vehicle tank. My uncle had that problem (Denver area) perhaps two years ago. Other than him, I haven't heard of contaminated fuel for fifteen or twenty years.

 

Your concerns about ethanol are exaggerated. It's not the antichrist. It's TERRIBLE farm, fuel, food, and environmental POLICY, but it's not a terrible fuel.

[Hairdo12]

I've run E-10 for very close to thirty years.

 

I've had Z-E-R-O problems with Holley carbs Rochester carbs, Kehin carbs, throttle body injection, and port injection.

 

I've known other people that have had issues with CONTAMINATED SERVICE STATION TANKS where the ethanol mixed with the water that leaked into the underground tank, and then the water got pumped into the vehicle tank. My uncle had that problem (Denver area) perhaps two years ago. Other than him, I haven't heard of contaminated fuel for fifteen or twenty years.

 

Your concerns about ethanol are exaggerated. It's not the antichrist. It's TERRIBLE farm, fuel, food, and environmental POLICY, but it's not a terrible fuel.

 

I'm sure everyone was up in arms the same way when they were mandating lead wasn't allowed in gasoline anymore. Everything described about the negative effects of the ethonal I agree is exaggerated. Fact is, the sign says may contain up to 10% ethonal when the fuel really only contains 5%. The main reason why some cars have trouble with higher concentrations of ethonal is because of rubber gaskets/hoses do not hold up well to the alcohol. Also because the alcohol tends to attract moisture, as the fuel ages it can rust the inside bottom of the gas tank and fuel lines. I have also heard it can cause soloide problems in fuel injectors (but only at high concentrations). All this is pretty much only common if you constantly use tons of that fuel additive to remove water from your fuel lines and gas tank. That stuff is mostly alcohol and has the potential to bring your % up quickly. If your car has carbon deposits or varish build up, that is normal for any internal combustion engin that requires fossil fuel. Do some cleaning as you should for each tune up.

 

The formula for gasoline has changed many times over the years. Don't just blame the ethonal for loss of power. It could be another additive: for example Methyl tert-butyl etheror MTBE was commonly used to add oxygen to the fuel and raise octaine. It was banned from useage about ten years ago. No sign on the gas pump stating the % of MTBE.... no one complaining its not in use anymore.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Hairdo12

[GnatGoSplat]

They haven't been selling E10 here until the last few years. Before, the only place you could get it is Casey's General Store. Now I think everything is E10. When I took a trip north 3 or 4yrs ago, a lot of places sold E10 and I kept a watchful eye on my fuel economy, it dropped quite noticeably on E10. Now that every place sells E10, I think my fuel economy is definitely worse in all my vehicles, but I don't bother to calculate it anymore. For the most part though, my cars run fine without issue. I did have an FPR go a few years ago, but it was nearing 20yrs old and the car had sat for awhile, so I can't really blame the E10. I feel like E15 would be fine as well since it's only 5% which isn't a lot, but may decrease my fuel economy even more. I can't say I have an opinion on the politics because I haven't seen any solid stats on whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks or not.

 

Casey's General Store now sells 89-octane "Super Unleaded" for less than 87-octane Regular. They manage that, because it's E15 and cheaper than the regular E10. One of my coworkers buys the Super thinking she's getting a good deal, when in reality, she's buying fuel with less energy and probably getting slightly worse fuel economy and a more corrosive fuel.

[Schurkey]

Used to be in the GM owner's manuals that UP TO 10% ethanol was acceptable; or UP TO 5% methanol (provided the methanol blend had "cosolvents".

 

The implication is that using E-15 would NOT be acceptable on those older GM vehicles...but of course they ran gasoline engines on kerosene during WWII. You burn what you have to in order to get to work so you can feed the political machine that's screwing the country...

[Captain Ficho]

Used to be in the GM owner's manuals that UP TO 10% ethanol was acceptable; or UP TO 5% methanol (provided the methanol blend had "cosolvents".

 

This is true, and if you hate E10 that much... pony up the extra cash for premium. 91/93 and 94 octane all have zero ethanol in them. Only way to know if it makes a noticeable difference in MPG or car performance is by running a tank of each and calculating MPG afterward.

[Penglii]

Does *ALL* premium contain 0% ethanol?

There are a few pumps around here that have the "may contain 10% ethanol" sticker on the premium spigots too...

[Night Fury]

^^^Wants to know that too

[Schurkey]

This is true, and if you hate E10 that much... pony up the extra cash for premium. 91/93 and 94 octane all have zero ethanol in them. Only way to know if it makes a noticeable difference in MPG or car performance is by running a tank of each and calculating MPG afterward.

I've run E-10 for very close to thirty years.

 

I've had Z-E-R-O problems with Holley carbs Rochester carbs, Kehin carbs, throttle body injection, and port injection.

 

I've known other people that have had issues with CONTAMINATED SERVICE STATION TANKS where the ethanol mixed with the water that leaked into the underground tank, and then the water got pumped into the vehicle tank. My uncle had that problem (Denver area) perhaps two years ago. Other than him, I haven't heard of contaminated fuel for fifteen or twenty years.

 

Your concerns about ethanol are exaggerated. It's not the antichrist. It's TERRIBLE farm, fuel, food, and environmental POLICY, but it's not a terrible fuel.

Does it sound like I hate ethanol fuel? I hate ethanol POLITICS and SUBSIDIES, but not the fuel. I'm merely pointing out that GM approved 10%, but not 15%. As the quantity of taxpayer-subsidized alcohol goes up, so does food prices and ADM's profit margin. Turning food into fuel is extremely stupid; and I resent having my tax money used against me. Yeah, I know...go stand in line--everyone else hates it too.

 

Does *ALL* premium contain 0% ethanol?

There are a few pumps around here that have the "may contain 10% ethanol" sticker on the premium spigots too...

 

^^^Wants to know that too

I'd expect that the answer varies with the season and with the location. I would NOT count on "premium" being ethanol-free.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Schurkey

[virtuetovice]

I was thinking about this not too long ago myself. I do know ethanol seems to have an effect on my gas mileage. Good news is, the Shell right up the street sells ethanol-free gas. Since I figured that out, Shell is just about the only fuel my car gets, simply because it runs more efficiently that way.

 

Someone mentioned C4C. DO NOT get me started on that.

[89oldscutlass]

Im not much of a fan of ethanol because of reasons already expressed by some of you. I dont understand the performance loss and loss of gas mileage using it. I am from the South and I have run moonshine in my cars in my youth and they ran awsome with it not to mention the hp boost from using it. We had to remove our catalytic converters to run it in our cars in the 80s.

What im trying to get at is that it seems to me that those who are mass producing the ethanol for use in gas are putting out a real low grade product because you can add moonshine to any grade fuel and it bumps up the octane up by quite a bit.

[GnatGoSplat]

Im not much of a fan of ethanol because of reasons already expressed by some of you. I dont understand the performance loss and loss of gas mileage using it. I am from the South and I have run moonshine in my cars in my youth and they ran awsome with it not to mention the hp boost from using it. We had to remove our catalytic converters to run it in our cars in the 80s.

 

The performance and mileage loss are quite simple. A gallon of ethanol has less BTU (energy) than a gallon of gasoline.

http://www.cogeneration.net/FuelAndEnergyConversionandEquivalence.htm

 

The only way you'd see a performance boost is if you'd benefit from the higher octane, such as in a high compression or forced induction engine. Otherwise, all things being equal, you should see a performance and mileage decrease with ethanol added.

[mra32]

Im not much of a fan of ethanol because of reasons already expressed by some of you. I dont understand the performance loss and loss of gas mileage using it. I am from the South and I have run moonshine in my cars in my youth and they ran awsome with it not to mention the hp boost from using it. We had to remove our catalytic converters to run it in our cars in the 80s.

What im trying to get at is that it seems to me that those who are mass producing the ethanol for use in gas are putting out a real low grade product because you can add moonshine to any grade fuel and it bumps up the octane up by quite a bit.

 

lolwut

[virtuetovice]

Why the hell would you waste perfectly good moonshine in a car??

[Schurkey]

Why the hell would you waste perfectly good moonshine in a car??

 

We had to remove our catalytic converters to run it in our cars in the 80s.

 

Must have been made in a lead-coated still.