xtremerevolution Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I have concluded that the reason why my 4T65E slips in 1st gear is because of the input clutch piston seal, and apparently you need to get 3/4 into the transmission torn down completely to replace it, which includes the use of special tools. All these tools, guess what, I don't have, nor do I have the time for it anymore and this car is now going from a great joy to have to a royal pain in my ass because I'm always sitting there on the edge. At minimum I'm looking at a $120 ish overhaul kit, a $60 PCS solenoid, and a $30 TCC solenoid, including tools that I'd need to buy to do the job. I can limp it around with a leaking input clutch seal, or I could consider my options. My options so far are: Rebuild it myself - takes time, but gains knowledge and experience Have someone rebuild it - cost, finding someone to do it Swap in a 5 speed 282/284 - where to find the parts, cost of clutch Swap in a 6 speed F40 - where to find the parts, who can help me do it? Swap in a 4T80E - power hog, heavy, takes a ton of power, expensive I can't seem to find a cheap F40 anymore, nor do I know what else would be required to make it work, so that's a very questionable idea. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 well unless you can weld or know someone who can the F40 is out. good freakin luck cramming in a 4t80, I'd sooner rebuild a 4t65 or 282/284 swap before I did that. Also I was looking at N* cars with 4t80s. the few trans shops I called laughed when I mentioned 4t80. I guess they hate working on it more then likely you'll be ripping the car back down to 5 speed it, it is a good deal of work personally I'd probably lean to rebuilding the 4t65, you already have it and would probably be the easiest route to getting on the road again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 well unless you can weld or know someone who can the F40 is out. good freakin luck cramming in a 4t80, I'd sooner rebuild a 4t65 or 282/284 swap before I did that. Also I was looking at N* cars with 4t80s. the few trans shops I called laughed when I mentioned 4t80. I guess they hate working on it more then likely you'll be ripping the car back down to 5 speed it, it is a good deal of work personally I'd probably lean to rebuilding the 4t65, you already have it and would probably be the easiest route to getting on the road again. That's where I was leaning too. Rebuilding it would be the cheapest and easiest way to go. I called up Adam and he said its not that difficult at all rebuilding it, just a bit time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I'm going to hit up a few junkyards with D on Saturday. If I find a 282 or 284, I'm going to town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 i can pick up brand new 2006-specific F40s for ~$400 about an hour and a half away from me.... couldn't comment on the fab skills or time necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Well let me tell you this. I'm already sick and tired of automatic transmissions. As much as it would be a learning experience to rebuild this transmission, it would be an unnecessarily time consuming experience. I'm going to hit up a junkyard every month or so and the first 5 speed that comes up will be mine. I am so sick of this 4T65E that its not even funny. I don't want to rebuild it, drive it 50,000 miles, and have it shit on me again. I'd rather have a 284 that will break only its case under 650hp+, save the weight, save the hassle, and get better performance to boot. Right now my solution is to raise line pressure, but not so much that TCC doesn't disengage, so I have to find the medium. I'm going to replace the filter and put in a new gasket since its leaking and the only experience I'll have after that with a 4T65E will be to get it the hell out of my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 now you know why I'm going 282 instead of the rebuilt 3.29fdr 4t65e I have. I'll put a 4t60e in way before the 65e. and andrie, go 282. They can be rebuilt, easier to find replacement transmissions, clutches are way cheaper, and just gernerally easier to find parts for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 There is a 284 at krap king road auto parts in Toledo oh if you feel like pulling it... 350 for the trans everything else is extra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) There is a 284 at krap king road auto parts in Toledo oh if you feel like pulling it... 350 for the trans everything else is extra Way too steep of a price for a trans you have to pull yourself. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll cross my fingers on finding one around here. Edit...just called a local u pull it yard in Aurora where I'm going with D on saturday. A manual trans is $150, with a $30 core returned if I decide to bring my old trans back. I can't imagine how they'd want $350 for the trans. Maybe if it included everything, a good clutch, and a warranty, lol! Edited October 21, 2010 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 now you know why I'm going 282 instead of the rebuilt 3.29fdr 4t65e I have. I'll put a 4t60e in way before the 65e. and andrie, go 282. They can be rebuilt, easier to find replacement transmissions, clutches are way cheaper, and just gernerally easier to find parts for. Thanks for the tip. I'll try to find a 282. Anything I need to look out for in particular? What all do I have to grab as far as parts go from the donor car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Any reason why the 89-02 3.1L clutches are more expensive than the 88-89 2.8 clutches? Would anyone actually recommend a SPEC clutch? I was reading over on the fiero boards that they don't last very long. http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/performanceparts/Pontiac/Grand_Prix/Clutch/Clutch_Kits The thread I saw: http://www.realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16004&start=0 Which clutch would I need for my car? Does it depend on what car I pull the transmission out of? Which cars can I pull this transmission out of? Do I need to replace the brake booster? I remember hearing something about that before... Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Edited October 21, 2010 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 call me, i can explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I never said you had to pull the trans yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I never said you had to pull the trans yourself That makes it a little bit better, but still more than I'm willing to pay. Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 That makes it a little bit better, but still more than I'm willing to pay. Wish me luck! I thought you would have learned by now- Gotta pay to play. The more you keep cheaping out on stuff, the more junk you are going to put into the car. Do it right the first time, and spend the extra cash. You don't have to have EVERYTHING at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 For what it will cost to rebuild the auto, you can buy a 5 speed swap and a nice new Spec clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 I've had my spec stage 2 in my z34 for 10,000 miles now. Feels as good now as it did day one. Granted I am rarely hard on the car, but its been holding up great. I've heard horror stories but that is all I have heard, I have yet to see anyone back that claim up. No, you cannot use the same brake booster, you will need one for a 88-93 w-body... buy it brand new, the OEM ones fail and cause massive brake suckage. I would get a clutch set for the car the trans and components came out of. Also you will need to obtain a flywheel for a 3800 4th gen f body and have it machined down (to what spec I do not know). Quite frankly the cost of a mantrans swap IS going to be close to that of rebuilding the automagic and it is more work. Once you factor in misc parts, oil filter adapter conversion, clutch, flywheel+ machine work to adapt it. Not trying to scare you away but after doing 2 5 speed swaps now. it is what it is, if you want to do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 I thought you would have learned by now- Gotta pay to play. The more you keep cheaping out on stuff, the more junk you are going to put into the car. Do it right the first time, and spend the extra cash. You don't have to have EVERYTHING at once. Yeah but there's a difference between paying $350 for a 284 just because someone thinks its worth nearly its weight in gold, and pulling it yourself for $150. You have to pay to play, but you don't have to be stupid about it. That price is asinine. There's a 282 with 94k on it up in Shepherd, MI for $125, pulled and waiting, and that's an hour less drive each way! For what it will cost to rebuild the auto, you can buy a 5 speed swap and a nice new Spec clutch. That's what I was thinking as well. I've had my spec stage 2 in my z34 for 10,000 miles now. Feels as good now as it did day one. Granted I am rarely hard on the car, but its been holding up great. I've heard horror stories but that is all I have heard, I have yet to see anyone back that claim up. No, you cannot use the same brake booster, you will need one for a 88-93 w-body... buy it brand new, the OEM ones fail and cause massive brake suckage. I would get a clutch set for the car the trans and components came out of. Also you will need to obtain a flywheel for a 3800 4th gen f body and have it machined down (to what spec I do not know). Quite frankly the cost of a mantrans swap IS going to be close to that of rebuilding the automagic and it is more work. Once you factor in misc parts, oil filter adapter conversion, clutch, flywheel+ machine work to adapt it. Not trying to scare you away but after doing 2 5 speed swaps now. it is what it is, if you want to do it right. From what I have heard, only the 284 requires an oil filter adapter. Even so, apparently you can use one from a LeSabre without any issues (Kuntzie's method). I'll definitely pick up a new brake booster, along with new axles, new clutch kit, a new flywheel, and have the flywheel machined. Bob told me about the flywheel over the phone. Now I just need to get the specification. This is going to be an ongoing project as I source some of the parts since I can limp my current transmission along for a little while, but the manual transmission and everything I need from the donor car will be a one or two day pull. The cost may be close, but the amount of work involved will surely be less unless I'm missing something huge. To take apart the entire transmission and put it back together will take longer than to take the dash out and install the 5 speed related components. Keep in mind you still have to put a transmission back in. To repair the automatic requires a rebuild kit, new solenoids, and a new clutch piston, and that is provided I don't find anything else when I'm in there. The biggest problem with that is that once I'm done, I'll still have a 4T65E! As far as I'm concerned, that transmission is a ticking time bomb and its only a matter of time before something else happens. Not my cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 believe you me it is WAY easier to replace a trans for a exact model trans, the rebuild work, i'll give you that. but its no walk in the park to strip the front end and dash to the point of being able to bolt all the parts in. check out my previous 2 5 speed swap threads to get a feel for what is involved, granted I overdid my last 5 speed swap but thats how I roll. It is a lot of work, but well worth it. I love my 284 but finding ANYTHING for it outside of axles is a complete ballache, want a trans mount... aw well too bad can't get em. Rebuild parts? yeah, even Getrag told me to GTFO on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 ismellrealbad documented alot of his work on his L67/282 swap into his 95 grand prix. It would be worth digging up that thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 believe you me it is WAY easier to replace a trans for a exact model trans, the rebuild work, i'll give you that. but its no walk in the park to strip the front end and dash to the point of being able to bolt all the parts in. check out my previous 2 5 speed swap threads to get a feel for what is involved, granted I overdid my last 5 speed swap but thats how I roll. It is a lot of work, but well worth it. I love my 284 but finding ANYTHING for it outside of axles is a complete ballache, want a trans mount... aw well too bad can't get em. Rebuild parts? yeah, even Getrag told me to GTFO on that one. You wouldn't happen to have the links for those 2 5 speed swap threads would you? That, and the clutches are more expensive, and the 282 can supposedly take plenty of power. I've already decided on the 282. As for stripping the dash, believe me, nothing will irritate you more than the 10+ hours required to replace the evaporator core on a 2nd gen GP. I did it 3 weeks ago and it was a collossal pain in the ass. Anything dash related will be easier than that. ismellrealbad documented alot of his work on his L67/282 swap into his 95 grand prix. It would be worth digging up that thread I actually remember looking through that whole thread yesterday, all 14 some pages of it. Granted, could only see some of the pictures since I was at work, but it was a worthwhile read. Turns out that the oil filter adapter is needed with the 282 as well. As noted earlier, Kuntzie mentioned you can use one from a lesabre. For my and other peoples' future reference: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/35183-Rob-s-L67-282-swap-progress-thread-TAKE-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 check my profile. i am 90% sure I have them listed there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 check my profile. i am 90% sure I have them listed there. Could you elaborate on these? the clutch MC is not THAT bad to bleed out, if you have the right tools. once the slave cyl gets messed up, it is done.GM lists at $370, i got mine for significantly less, but still expensive either way. the service manual states that you have to replace the clutch grommet every time you remove the pedal from the clutch MC, they are not joking! it is only about $6 anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/31473-quot-Wouldn-t-it-suck-if-the-Lumina-s-transmission-died-quot-56k-FAIL? http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/40529-Chris-Z34-Project-Dayton-or-Bust!-PG12 both are documented Okay I guess, the second one has more pictures and information though. any questions feel free to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 I was more trying to figure out what the whole deal was with the slave cylinder getting messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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