Timing belt help

[Morrtis]

My 95 olds cutlass convert with LQ1 started making a ticking sound, took off the covers to inspect the T- belt and it has started sliding off the front camshaft gears and rubbing the cover. The car is still timed correctly, runs fine, just the noise. Will i need to have the cam hold downs to replace all the parts? By the way bought the car new in 95 and tensioner/T-belt broke at 28k so dealer replaced under warranty and it took them 2 tries to get the damn thing timed. I myself have replaced the alternator 3 times, intake gaskets twice, and the fuel injector o-rings thus the second intake set. Thx

[spiderw31]

To do the job properly, yes you will need the special tools. Once you remove the t-belt, the cams will snap to a normal resting position immediately, thus you will lose timing. You would need the tools to loosen the cam gears and reset the timing.

 

Some members have mentioned using vice grips to lock cam pairs together, and replace the t-belt without actually retiming it, but I don't have any experience with that method. In any case though, I'd expect the timing to be more accurate if done right.

 

Oh, and my t-belt was doing what you describe not too long before it munched itself, so don't put the job off! Mine was walking off the cam cogs because the bearing on the front idler pulley was toast. Make sure you replace those pulleys, as well as the hydraulic tensioner (mine was seized to the plate).

[Morrtis]

Thanks for the info. Yeah i haven't driven the car since diagnosing the problem and it was only driven a couple miles before my daughter let me know about the problem. God bless her she knows how much i love the car so she tells me every little thing. A mechanic friend of mine also said they would mark the cam gears while old belt was still on then match them back up when all the new parts were installed. I'll probably get the tools though. i found a set for $80 if they haven't sold yet and i have a pdf of the manual for the timing procedure that someone was kind enough to post a couple yrs ago. Thanks again, wish me luck.

[Crazy K]

I'd sell you a tool set I made for less than that. Not pretty, but does the job.... though some ingeniuity will allow you to make your own tools... and timing marks are garbage, since they might not me in correct time in the first place...........

[ss427]

I was able to do my belt without the hold downs. I marked a line across the side of each cam cog onto the belt belt. Once the belt was removed I counted the teeth between each crayon mark and marked the new belt. Then I simply installed the new belt lining it up with the crayon marks on the cam cogs. I reused the tensioner on it and it's been going strong for 19000 miles.

[Morrtis]

OK. I made some cam hold down tools. Got the instructions from 60 deg v6 site (thanks!) and parts to make them from NAPA, the gates timing belt kit from rockauto.com and the hydraulic tensioner from local dealer. Also scored a another 3.4 dohc engine, trans, and harness from a guy that was going to buy my car a year ago that did a 3100 swap cause I couldn't part with my 95 cutlass convertible. I will be doing the t-belt this weekend hopefully with no problems. I would really like to do the 6/6 timing but not really sure how to do it so I'll stick with stock until the next time. Will post how it goes hopefully without anything else breaking. Thanks for all the info and help.

[Psych0matt]

stock timing marks can be helpful, as I did mine with them the first time A+. However, when I swapped engines and tried to do it again, I got it right with the engine out of the car, only to have the tensioner rocketship break a few thousand later. I timed it about 6 or 7 times over a few month period of time using the marks, and never got it right. I ended up paying $500 to have it done, but at that point it was worth it. One day I'd like to do another the proper way for comparison, and I think my brother just picked up an LQ1 sedan for a beater, so we'll see if I get the chance!

[Galaxie500XL]

Be careful when using the homemade cam tools...I tried that route, and bent one while trying to break the cam gears loose...

 

Ultimately, I found the entire Kent-Moore specialty toolset for the 3.4 including the case for less than $100.00 on EBay, and used that to do my timing belt.

 

Double check your timing marks...on mine, there were white marks where the belt had been replaced earler, those marks were nearly 6 degrees retarded from TDC, and the harmonic balancer mark was also retarded, about 3 degrees, don't know why.

 

I ultimately got a wooden dowel, and found TDC the old fashioned way, by actually checking where the piston was via the dowel in the #1 spark plug hole.

 

I was rewarded with an engine that ran better than ever after I put it all back together.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Galaxie500XL

[Morrtis]

Turns out the hydraulic tensioner was bad, lil oil filler plug on the end was gone,(no oil), and the rubber boot on the other end was hammered. After checking the timing marks and cam flats the engine was still correctly timed so I got the timing belt installed by locking down the rear cams, with cam hold down tool, then using vise grips to hold the front two together, I removed old belt making sure the cams did not move. Then installed all new pulleys, hydraulic tensioner, and new t-belt. Rotated engine verifying timing. Everything lined up so I reinstalled everything except power steering pump and air box and decided to check my work. I had installed the hydraulic tensioner by feel and decided to double check with a mirror to make sure it was in the little socket that's on the tensioner pulley. It was not! So I got out the old trusty vice grips again and locked both the front and rear gears together while I took the tensioner back out. What a pain in the ass! I had to screw the tensioner back in, add more oil to it and reinstall correctly. Car fired right up, thank god, and runs great, but it's still making a growling noise from the accessory side. I think it might be the water pump. I also did the, "oil drive-dist delete" o-ring by hacking off a little bit of the head flange and chipping out an inch of the top lip from the "oil drive" top lip to get enough clearance to get to the o-ring. Installed new o-ring and paper gasket to make sure that "pos" doesn't leak any more. I think it took more time cleaning all the oil and grime off the parts than anything. Parts washer would have been sweet. All in all not a bad experience i think with the right tools i could do the 6/6 timing no prob. Thanks for all the advice and if you want some of mine...double check your work before you put it all back together! Lesson learned:rolleyes:

[Crazy K]

 

p.s. as for my home made cam tools... they were from a piece of 1x2 rectangular tubing. they work great!

[Psych0matt]