turbostewhite Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Okay, I recently found out that my STE's ABS III brakes were replaced with a standard braking system, vaccuum supplied by the plenum and wires from abs left hanging. Brakes seem to work, but I have not driven the car due to a bad transaxle.Car was driven prior to me owning it, so I have to assume the brakes worked fine this way. Is this a good idea? Will it affect any other systems in the car? I don't really like abs myself, so that does not bother me. Should I do this swap to my TGP with a bad ABS system? Should I do this swap to my friend's STE? Seems like a simple enough solution for those ABS problems, so it has to have a flaw in it somewhere...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 OH YEAH. There is a big flaw. The Powermaster is bolted to the firewall. The vacuum booster twist locks into a 4 inch wide hole that is part of the firewall. The RIGHT way to do it is remove the dash and change the firewall panel (it bolts in). It can however be done by cutting the hole in the firewall larger and overlaying the section from a donor car out of the junkyard. Then you have to redo the brake lines. I would recommend getting the booster hose from a newer car as it goes up and out of the way, unlike the 89/90 which is part metal and goes close to the crossover and downpipe. I have some details on my page http://www.turbogpgarage.com under the powermaster section. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 The 94+ brake booster is also bigger than 88-93. The 94+ booster actually performs significantly better than the 88-93. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yeah, I was hoping I could try the 94+ one. But get this. I used a Camaro master cylinder, and split the brakes front to back. This all was pretty cheap from the yard and easy to get really. I had originally got the camaro MC with the abs unit, in hopes of using abs, but never did. Anyhow, I spent two weeks trying to figure out why the pedal went to the floor while it was running. I tried different MC's, bleeding routing thinking it was hydraulic. The stupid booster was bad. Braking isn't bad either. On the one I did, I cut the existing firewall to the cam lock shape and it worked. I had to trim the pedal bracket bolts a few threads so it wouldn't hit the booster, and in all reality could switch back if I wanted. However, there is no way to seal the firewall. GM used a special seal that was sandwiched between the bracket and the firewall that allowed the booster to lock into the firewall and still seal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Double pst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted October 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Thanks, guys...I have to look and see exactly how the damn thing is mated into the firewall. if the worst thing i have to do is cut a hole or fabricate a locking mechanism, then i'm okay...so tell me more about that camaro setup...please...i am looking into all possible avenues with this brake thing...so a pm IV abso-freakin'-lutely will NOT fit in there and/or work? Please tell me what's different, and maybe i can make it work as well. Is the turbo gonna be in the way of the PM IV? I'm only asking, because i already have a good PM IV and standard booster/MC setups lying around. Thanks again marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 I would say if the previous owner took the PM3 out to track him down and give him a big hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Yeah the IV won't fit. It hangs too low and hits the DP and back of the turbo. Thats kind of the situation, there are lots of those units around. The camaro setup uses the GM compact master cylinder so it will fit on the booster. But it only has two outlets, so it can be used with front/rear split instead of dual diagonal. If you use the w-body master cylinder you will have to replace the rear lines and remove the proportioning valve at the back of the car. I went this route because I'm too anal about lines and didn't feel like removing them and redoing them. I also prefer front rear bias as it can be tuned better. Dual diagonal is safer if there is a hydraulic failure however. The camaro ABS is 3 sensor 3 channel. However, all ABS IV only have 1 channel for the rear, that is hydraulically seperated from each other. So when either rear wheel abs is activated they are both activated. The fronts can be modulated seperately. So you say, the TGP has 4 sensors. Since the outputs to the Modulator/Motor pack are the same, you can use a w-body EBCM which has 4 sensor inputs to control the Camaro modulator. (in theory) I would recommend cutting the firewall section out around the threaded studs from the donor car and removing the firewall cam lock section, the seal and the seal retainer. THen you can cut a hole big enough in the TGP firewall to allow you to install the sectioned firewall, seal and seal retainer. The only difference this would be over swapping the complete firewall is the thickness of the firewall which I think is negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Excellent, thank you Chris. I am going to try the standard brake approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 oh, btw...how hard to remove the w body dash and dash block? (that aluminum bracket below the dash?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 I've heard rotating the dash is not that hard. I've seen it done in junkyards before but never done it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Rotating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 yeah, dashes usually are mounted on pins at the bottom edge, or some sort of slot on a bolt. Then they "rotate" into position under the windsheild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted October 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Ohhh...sounds a bit tricky. hafta look in my parts list catalog and get a better view. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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