Second Gen cradle into first gen?

[Phooey]

Hi everyone. Nice looking site.

 

I have a '97 GTP with a shot body, and a '96 Cutlass Supreme SL with a blown 3100. I'd like to just swap the whole cradle with everything into the Cutlass, possible? Anyone ever tried this?

 

The reason i ask is the brakes, stuts, steering on the gen 2 is in better shape than the Cutlass. And it sure would be an easier swap. And, cradle fit or not, it will be cool to have a Cutlass L67.

 

Thanks for any input.

[White93z34]

The cradle will not bolt in. The cars are too different to do a simple swap of cradle and suspension.

[jimmyfloyd]

I don't believe it will bolt in, but you can always measure.

 

Otherwise, find a cradle/mounts from a 96 Regal with the 3.8L and use that. I believe it should swap into the cutlass.

[jman093]

I've measured and the 4 mounting holes for the cradle are in the exact same spots. I've measured a lot of different w-bodies from each generation they are all the same. Though they bolt in the same spot the cradles are not the same shape, so there could be issues with it hitting the core support or something like that. You'd have to swap the entire steering and suspension with it since they are different, but you plan to do that anyways. The pattern for the 3 bolts for the strut mount is the same so I think that should be a problem and the two mounting bolts for the steering gear are also in the exact same spot on the cradle.

 

There will probably be some issue that will arise, but I've seen no reason for it not to fit, so I do think it could be made to work even if it takes a little modification. Nobody has ever tried it in earnest so its impossible to know for sure. I've been planning on trying this myself with an aluminum cradle w someday when I get a place with a garage.

 

But honestly if all you want is a working 3800 in the car, jimmyfloyd's got the right idea. Just get a cradle you know will work.

Edited August 31, 2010 by jman093

[Phooey]

I found the chasis dimentions for both cars. Frame/uni-body dimention sheets for collision repair. It's like looking at two completely different cars. The mounting bolts are very close jman, just 4mm off at the rear, not noticeable. But it's the height at the front. The first gen cradle is much flatter/lower. Maybe a spacer/bushing would work, but where are the front tires? I can't figure it out because the wheel bases are different, and each gen has different control/starting points. The rear cradle is totally different too.

 

If it would swap, i'd have the time for it, barely. I have a ton of projects going on, so in reality, i may try to get the GTP through one more winter, and/or part them both. The Olds needs alot of work, but is in way better shape, chasis wise. The GTP is gone. I have 2x6 chunks between the rear strut towers and the package deck, and no rockers under the GTP rocker covers. I have a 98 Riv w/L67 that's mid resto, and i need to get that done too. My wife and i just bought an 09 Impala SS and we have no plans to drive it in the winter. Car would be rediculous in snow. So every car takes one step to the left. She gets my Bonneville for the winter, and i like POS rats for winter. A black Cutlass tudor w/L67 would be great, but not enough time.

 

I've only been here for a few days, i like what i see. I tried to put up an avatar, but did'nt work, so i'll try in FAQ soon. I have some fun w-body stuff to post.

 

 

If someone can tell me what i'm doing wrong with pic above, and why it's not on, or send me to the pic link, it would be much appreciated.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Phooey

[jman093]

I found the chasis dimentions for both cars. Frame/uni-body dimention sheets for collision repair. It's like looking at two completely different cars. The mounting bolts are very close jman, just 4mm off at the rear, not noticeable. But it's the height at the front. The first gen cradle is much flatter/lower. Maybe a spacer/bushing would work, but where are the front tires? I can't figure it out because the wheel bases are different, and each gen has different control/starting points. The rear cradle is totally different too.

 

Good information to know. I knew they were very very close .4mm would be easy to overcome I would think. The cradles have a play in them already to do a cradle shift to fix alignment problems and you can get away with elongating the holes a couple millimeters to make it fit in the rear. Hopefully something could be done to get the front to bolt up level. Just have to get it up there and see what needs to be done.

 

I'm not really sure about the tires. I never realized until now 2G's were 2.5" longer wheelbase, so I'm not sure if they put that length in the front cradle or somewhere else. I wouldn't think it would be in the front cradle because that would screw caster up all to hell. The control arm attaching points are going to be different either way because the control arm is way different than a 1G. And yeah, a rear cradle is definitely not going to fit in a first gen. But I'm not sure why anyone would want to. There's a write-up on swapping the lighter aluminum 2G rear knuckles into a first gen if you want to put those and your brakes on a first gen.

Edited August 31, 2010 by jman093

[RobertISaar]

the reason your link didn't work above is that you pasted the URL before using the IMG tags.

[Phooey]

I'll post those dimention sheets at some point. They are 11x16 with small print so they will be a PITA i'm sure.

 

I did the exact same thing and this pic posted, ohh well i'm getting there.

 

See how the cradle curls up in the front? The first gen does'nt do that. Well, not nearly as much i should say.

 

This is a car i practically rebuilt after a collision. The owner decided, she wanted her 2010 500 mile beauty a different color too. I can't remember when i took the pic, if it's the new cradle or the damaged one.

 

Edited August 31, 2010 by Phooey

[gpchris]

Yes it will fit. but it will set the entire drivetrain at an angle as well as the control arms causing horrible steering problems. It will work but it will ride like shit and be very unsafe. Theres a guy on clubgp who did it.