95 Cutlass - ABS Issue (Module? Motor Pack?) HELP!

[djrobnyc]

I brought my 95 Convertible in to have the brakes looked at. There have been no specific issues, except on a wet road recently my wife slammed on the brakes and she thinks the ABS did NOT kick in; the wheels locked up. The mechanic I brought the car to is reputable and he came back with some bad news: the car is not safe to drive, because, he says, the Hydraulic Module and ABS Motor Pack are bad. He says 3 mechanics took the car out and were spooked when slamming on the brakes. He says the car did a 360 a couple of times because of the bad module and motor pack, all of the brake fluid is going to just one wheel when the ABS is engaged, thereby locking up the other 3. They said they hooked the car up to the diagnostics and confirmed the problem, based on the codes. They can do the job, but told me it would cost around $1500-$2000 because there are no aftermarket parts - only GM ones and they are expensive.

 

Does this diagnosis and cost sound feasible? My ABS light seems to be operating normally, so the system doesn't seem to be indicating a fault, but then again the car is 15 years old so who knows if the system is running properly?

 

Should I get a GM code reader too and see if it will kick out the codes? Should I get a second opinion? Are there aftermarket parts? I'm a bit afraid to drive the car...

[AL]

I would just pick up the pats from a junkyard

[birdman]

What AL said, its an easy enough job. and how fast did they test drive the car to do a "Few" 360's "Well hes having brake problems so lets do a 70mph panic stop and see whats up":showoff:

[Cutlass350]

T

The mechanic I brought the car to is reputable and he came back with some bad news: the car is not safe to drive, because, he says, the Hydraulic Module and ABS Motor Pack are bad. He says 3 mechanics took the car out and were spooked when slamming on the brakes. He says the car did a 360 a couple of times because of the bad module and motor pack, all of the brake fluid is going to just one wheel when the ABS is engaged, thereby locking up the other 3. They said they hooked the car up to the diagnostics and confirmed the problem, based on the codes. They can do the job, but told me it would cost around $1500-$2000 because there are no aftermarket parts - only GM ones and they are expensive.

The mechanic you brought it to is a lying ***hole!

IMHO, he should be reported to GM for defamation, and the BBS.

 

Unless my memory and ebay are both wrong, your '95 Cutlass uses a Delco IV ABS system.

IMHO, there's a bigger probability of a super-size planet all of a sudden appearing out of nowhere and dooming the Earth in 24-hours, than what that lying *********** said about the Delco-IV ABS system! And, yes, I am serous that GM could SUE HIS LYING *SS out of business with zero problems and with very little effort!

 

Oh, how do I know this? I design control systems for a living. I used to teach computer and control system design. And, I'm very familiar with the operations, checking and diagnostics of the Delco ABS-IV system.

 

Could the car do a 360 when you put on the brakes? Sure.

But, that would be because the ABS system disabled itself, because of a detected problem! And, for most errors, once the ABS disables itself because of a detected problem, the ABS stays off until reset.

The Delco ABSIV/V have position feedback and current feedback sensors. If ANYTHING is not within spec, the ABS disables itself, sets a code, and turns on the ABS light.

 

 

Note: If you yank the connectors that go to the ABS module on the master cylinder, then the car has NORMAL BRAKES.

 

 

 

As someone said, but an ABS module from ebay, or check out http://www.car-parts.com (BTW, just about every place will also ship).

 

When changing the ABS module, make sure that you bleed the master cylinder up top using both of the bleeding screws.

Most Delco-IV-ABS systems can be read with a cheap scanner. Note, I said most, not all. :-|

 

For my Achieva, it's one of the few odd-ball Delco-IV ABS scanner setups. My old ABS reader worked fine with it. But, the screen died. Until about 1-2 years ago, a scanner capable of reading my Achieva's ABS system was well over $1K. Now, there is one reader for ?$600? that does read my setup. Yup, I bought it. I replaced my rear axle, and the rear wheel bearings. And, my ABS light went on. I didn't realize that it was so simple to just do an R&R on the rear bearings with the axle in the car and the brakes all hooked up - you don't even have to take the brakes shoes off!

Oh well, I wanted a reason for that scanner anyways.

 

Oh yea. And gee, guess what! At the end of the winter, my ABS started throwing errors and disabling itself. The error was an "unexpected current during test". During the normal start-up tests, One of the coil packs registered current when another was being tested. I have neato traces and everything. So, I guess it was worth it buying the scanner after all. Although, it's still cheaper just to replace the ABS module and not worry about the actual error.

 

 

And yes, I do take it very personally when lying sacks of **** make BS FALSE claims about ABS, or air bag systems!! Yea, a very few systems are pure junk (like the POS Teves ABS system used in the 80's, which, IMHO, is a death trap waiting to kill people. HOW that mega POS system was ever approved for us on U.S. highways is baffling!)

 

On the other hand, you have the Delco and Bosch ABS systems. Both are impressive! Delco is a low-cost system that works 100% fine for what a noraml driver will see/have happen. It is not a performance, nor an off-road ABS system.

 

Tell your lying *ss mechanic to produce a data logging printout of the "ABS system causing risk to the driver" (uhm, and not counting the ABS turning off because of an error/failure - duh! ).

Even better, I'd like the GM lawyers to ask him.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Cutlass350

[Cutlass350]

BTW: Below is a capture of the error that my Delco-IV ABS system was detecting during it's power-on self-test, and then disabling over:

 

 

Note that the LF (Left Front) current feedback sensor reported current, even though the the LF motor was not commanded.

 

Edited August 15, 2010 by Cutlass350

[Cutlass350]

Once above ~10mph, the ABS system is active. Only a total moron would go fast with a reported bad ABS system and a data logger, and then try to lock the brakes. Also, if any damage was done to the car, or other property, during a a moronic test like that, they would be libel.

 

At ~20mph, any car should be going fast enough to test out the ABS brakes, and do it safely in an area without any cars.

 

Also, if the ABS system did not activate during the panic stop in the rain, a code would have been recorded.

And gee, isn't it interesting that they got a very different braking response? Also, I guess they never heard of NAPA or RockAuto for ABS parts?

 

 

 

From: http://www.rockauto.com/

 

1995 : OLDSMOBILE : CUTLASS SUPREME : 3.1L 189 cubic inch V6 MFI (M) OHV : Brake/Wheel Hub : ABS Actuator Assembly

 

A-1 CARDONE Part # 122303 Reman. A-1 CARDONE ABS Hydraulic Unit - Return and Rebuild

Service Only - By ordering this service you are agreeing to send your original part to the manufacturer to be rebuilt. Rebuild time is approximately 3-5 business days.

You will be contacted with directions once the order is placed. For more information please contact Customer Service

Price, Core, Total

$435.79 $50.00 $485.79

 

 

RAYBESTOS Part # ABS540069 Professional Grade, Remanufactured

Price, Core, Total

$442.79 $150.00 $592.79

Edited August 15, 2010 by Cutlass350

[djrobnyc]

Joe, thank you for your very detailed (and passionate!) response. I sent you a private message as well, but so everyone who reads this can get something of it -- what would you say my next step is? Should I first ask the mechanic to tell me exactly which codes were spit out? Should I replace the "hydraulic module" (is this the same as the ABS Hydraulic Unit as you listed above) and/or "ABS Motor Pack"? Are there any other parts I should replace? Or should I get a code scanner (where is my DLC connection? where do I get a scanner?) to see if I get any codes? Thanks again!

[White93z34]

So you say the ABS lamp operates as normal but the car gets really scary under lockup conditions?

 

Like Joe said, pull both the plugs on the top of the MC. and see what happens.

 

The ABS IV system is generally VERY reliable and available up through 99' on some models of cars. You can literally bolt in a unit off say a 98' regal on your 95 cutlass and it will work as it was meant to. Not to mention its a really easy MC to R/R

[19Cutlass94]

Ive got a spare ABS unit Id be willing to part with.