What is this noise?

[cubsfan24]

94 Regal GS 131k miles. This noise appears after the car is warmed up. Also when you rev the engine it will go away for a second or two. I put a piece of pipe up to the alt, water pump, and power steering and I don't think those are it. Also took the belt off and spun everything and they seem okay. Think it could be the harmonic balancer? Any ideas?

 

[video=youtube;B4Fx3Fccw7M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Fx3Fccw7M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Fx3Fccw7M

Edited July 9, 2010 by cubsfan24

[xtremerevolution]

I can't view videos from work, but I'll let you know what it is when I get home from work if nobody can figure it out.

[96oldsmobubble]

3800 balancers at one time were always needing replaced, I'm not sure what series or generation of the motor but I do know the later 80's for sure.

[RobertISaar]

how much tension is there on the belt?

 

[cubsfan24]

The belt feels like its got the correct tension

[jtwmechanic]

to really help narrow it down try removing the belt and the start the car. this procedure willl eliminate all of the acc.'s, alt. and tensioner. the series I engines are known for balancer issues. should be easy to diagnose the balancer by trying to move the pulley part of the balancer by hand without the belt on. you are going to need a puller in most cases to remove it if this is the case and i would not get a used one for replacement. the sound clip you posted isn't audible enough for me to tell exactly what the issue is though. try the first step i posted and let us know if the sound persist.

[cubsfan24]

Okay finally got time to do some more testing on this. I took the belt off and sure enough the sound was still there. So that probably guarantees that it is the harmonic balancer. So I obviously need a new harmonic balancer and I need a puller. Do you guys have any recommendations on which model to buy because I want to get one that will work. Also does the puller also push it back on or do I need another tool for that. Sorry for all the questions but have never used a puller before.

[jtwmechanic]

sometimes those balancers will come off by hand and sometimes they won't. i use a three jaw puller or a standard harmonic balancer remover to pull them and i recommend using a balancer installer to put it back on.

[cubsfan24]

Is there a cheap puller and installer for under $20 or should I just try to rent a set from a auto parts store. Any hints on doing the job? The way I understand it is that you just remove the bolt, pull the balancer off, put new one on and push on with installer, and reinstall bolt. In theory of course, nothing ever goes as planned.

[jtwmechanic]

i remove the wheel and the plastic splash guard just to make it roomy. and basically what you said after that. do not forget to torque the bolt to manfacture spec. auto zone and some other chains used to have a borrow a tool program, might try them instead of buying.

[cubsfan24]

Ya I probably won't get to the repair for another couple weeks but just wanted to get my ducks in a row. I will ask around a couple auto part stores to see if they have the proper tools to rent. Oh what is the best way to stop the engine from spinning when removing/tightening the bolt? Also what is the torque spec on that bolt? I am getting different answers on google.

Edited July 30, 2010 by cubsfan24

[RobertISaar]

94 regal 3800: balancer to crankshaft bolt: 111 lb-ft + 76*.

[cubsfan24]

94 regal 3800: balancer to crankshaft bolt: 111 lb-ft + 76*.

 

Thanks, I read that and thought that would be way to tight. But guess you don't want her to come off. What is the best way from keeping the engine from turning while tightening it?

[jtwmechanic]

3/4" impact to remove bolt, never tighten the bolt with an impact though. i have a tool that holds the flywheel still through the inspection plate, you could use a big ass screw driver to hold the flywheel still by lodging it against the bell housing. hand tighten the bolt after pressing the damper back on then torque to 111 ft/lbs + 76 degrees, or apply a little lock tight and torque to 115 ft/lbs. it is amazing what is needed to change a damn balancer isn't it?

[cubsfan24]

Ha well I got a 1/2" impact (Central Pneumatic Earthquake model that has a max torque of 625) that I hope will do the job. Was going to ask were the inspection plate was but a quick google search says its by where the starter engages the flywheel. I am sure its easy to see if I had the engine right in front of me.

 

Yes it is really amazing all the work to change one piece. Although I think our 99 town and country has a leaking front a/c evaporator which requires the entire dash to be removed. Don't know which job to do first.

[jtwmechanic]

you shouldn't have any problems

[Brian P]

there was a sporatic problem with earlier 3800's when the camshaft would "walk" back and forth and "drill" the cam timing gear into the timing cover. There's a sort of spring loaded clip which prevents this from normally happening, but it's known to fail. I'd hate to say that may be a possible case with your engine.

[cubsfan24]

there was a sporatic problem with earlier 3800's when the camshaft would "walk" back and forth and "drill" the cam timing gear into the timing cover. There's a sort of spring loaded clip which prevents this from normally happening, but it's known to fail. I'd hate to say that may be a possible case with your engine.

 

Ouch. Anyway of testing this? The engine is runs great other than this slight groaning noise only after the engine is at operating temp. Then when you slightly rev the motor (like to 2k) the noise will either stop for a second or will lessen slightly then return. Oh this isn't "my" engine, it is my brothers HA. My 3100 is running like a champ besides my piston slap when cold.

[dodgethis]

3100 for the win!

[Brian P]

easiest way is to get a stethoscope and probe around... listen near the upper front cover near the alternator. Would be a good idea to try and narrow down the source at least!