RobertISaar Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 Awesome. C21 works for me, maybe I'll do this tonight instead of the idle relearn.Since I'd have to re-do that anyway after adding the pin for the WB. LOL work smart, not work hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 c-21 has no pin in it. once you take off the red clip you will see the little plug. I posted some pics of the wire here: http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/48758-took-my-89-LG5-block-down-to-the-machine-shop.../page3 looks like you got your BIN modified for it to apply the patch. good job. I think Robert did all that for me because I couldn't figure it out by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 it should be fairly easy for anyone now, since all you have to do is copy/paste a couple of hex values and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 c-21 has no pin in it. once you take off the red clip you will see the little plug. I posted some pics of the wire here: That jives with what I'm expecting to see. I have a pin that Robert gave me so I should be able to pop out that plug and insert the pin. Sounds like a cakewalk. looks like you got your BIN modified for it to apply the patch. good job. I think Robert did all that for me because I couldn't figure it out by myself. it should be fairly easy for anyone now, since all you have to do is copy/paste a couple of hex values and you're done. It was so easy a caveman could do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 it was easy yet fun and it kept me occupied while bringing 3 decades of technology together and installing it all into my car. that's the way I look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Ahhh.... it feels good to get things done. The ALDL switch is installed and functional.. and Tunerpro can now see the wideband data Now i need a flux capacitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 done? who wants to be DONE! I am happy to have it on the road. actually, road? flips down sunglasses... where we are going... we don't need roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 Well of course getting things done and BEING done are totally different things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) almost forgot to look at it: don't get up to 5200 RPM yet! i'm looking at the log and the value in RAM that i used for RPM X 50 seems to get cleared randomly... here is a revised BIN with a new RAM location for the RPM X 50 value, get another log when you feel like it and we'll see if this one isn't getting cleared randomly as well. EDIT: ok, now here's one with the datastream modded to reflect the changes. PENGLII_TGP_26lb_nAsty1 with patch byte 74 part 2.zip Edited April 13, 2011 by RobertISaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 OK, no datalog today because I encountered some problems that caused me to abort my idle relearn mostway through. The first thing is that smoke started wafting out the exhaust... VERY light blue in color, almost white and no real odor just sort of acrid smelling. Same smoke that frightened me before I installed the wideband. Although now it starts at a higher coolant temperature than before... it used to start almost right away, and now it waited until about 65*C to start. (sidenote, the Tech1 idles the engine until it reaches 84*C, or thereabouts since I forgot the exact number, and then the idle relearn is complete.) Current assumption is this smoke is just crap burning off in the cat from having all the oil running through it before I replaced the turbo... I figure it will just go away eventually. Wideband was still reading 14.xx so I figure it's not engine related. Then at about 70*C I was hearing an unpleasant sound. So I killed the engine and checked. AC Delete pulley is apparently still rubbing slightly on the hard coolant pipe coming out of the water pump... because the pulley is mangled/melted on the one edge. So the pulley is self destructing and that is FAIL. I think the next step is to try Dorman #34198 style delete pulley... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 ouch.... i know all about plastic pulleys rubbing up against stuff and exploding.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Ya I avoided a kaboom situation here, but the sound was horrible. Like a high whining grinding flapping sound. It's especially FAIL when combined with crap burning off in the exhaust. Creates a nice brief illusion of grenading the engine at high RPM, except at an idling standstill. The worst time I ever had with a belt and a pulley was when the waterpump seized on the 3.1 in my old 91 Corsica. Shredded the belt and left me stranded alone on one of the far reaches of an O'hare airport access road that I probably should not have been driving down in the first place. Right next to a no parking sign too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 i still have that pulley in my garage... like i said, i pulled it off of a 3100 so it might be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 i still have that pulley in my garage... like i said, i pulled it off of a 3100 so it might be the same I still appreciate the offer... but apparently I'm too impatient... the UPS truck will be delivering me one on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Interesting... The Dorman #34198 pulley is not a perfect design for the 3.1 like it is for the 3100. I have to go to the hardware store and get some nuts and maybe a couple of slightly larger bolts, so it's not actually installed yet. The weather sucks today, so I'll get it installed tomorrow. I assume it must work (since dorman claims it is the correct delete pulley design for a 1989 3.1 application), but the fitment is strange. Only 2 of the holes will bolt into anything, and being that the delete pulley mount is cast in a right triangle shape, it's the short sides that allow the holes to match up... which will leave one hole just hanging out in mid air between the engine and the radiator... Strange design, I wonder why Dorman did not create a separate design for the 3.1..... one that uses the compressor mounting holes AND the factory delete pulley boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 you can tap the holes and thread in the bolts of you want to. that's how mine is held on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) So yours functions just fine being mounted by just the 2 holes? That is reassuring. Call me crazy, but I get nervous when I see things that end up needing to be installed 90 degrees rotated and with extra bits hanging off. But then again this was designed for GM vehicles... LOL I thought about tapping the holes, but I don't have a tap & die set... maybe in the future I will do that since it's probably better. In the meantime I picked up some Grade 8 nuts and bolts that ought to work just fine for now. Edited April 16, 2011 by Penglii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) OK, I worry too much. I got the new pulley installed just fine... used 7/16" Grade 8 bolts and nuts, which fit the holes very snugly. Now that it's in place and the belt is routed and everything... it seems alot sturdier than I feared it would be. Edited April 16, 2011 by Penglii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 OK, another datalog. Also to keep everything organized, I am including the BIN I used... so if the 50X RPM value still does not work, please make changes to the BIN posted here. Changes are: The Wideband patch is implemented. And a couple of changes I've had since getting the engine running again...I changed the BPC to 78 per TurboV-Sick's suggestion way back when, and I changed the fan timing SLIGHTLY to hopefully make it easier to do an idle relearn with the Tech-1 by bumping a couple of the values up by 2 degrees or something to allow it to reach the temperature the scantool is requiring to complete the operation. I have not looked closely at the datalog myself yet (the laptop I'm running tunerpro on has a screen glitch that could trigger acid flashbacks. LOL) but it reaches closed loop for a couple of minutes... and I blipped the throttle a couple of times too so that might give some pertinent data. When I blipped the throttle the response did seem somehow slightly off... sluggish or something... but that could be my imagination, or the lack of idle relearn or a timid foot or whatever. Engine sounds great, belt tracks smooth and don't hear any vacuum leaks or abnormal engine noises. Penglii TGP 2nd Log.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 OK... tried to learn idle with the tech-1. Even with the slightly higher fan-on temps, it still will not get up to the required 85*C. It gets up to 82*C and then the fan kicks on and brings the temps down to 75*C and so on. I don't want to raise the fan temps any more, so I think it's safe to assume that a stock scantool based idle learn is not fit for cars equipped with 160*F Thermostats. So I'm gonna bring my fan temps back down to what Robert originally set them at. I did try to set the idle with the old "run engine until fan comes on, then off then shut down engine & wait 30 secs... then fire back up and run for 5 min." Dunno if it made any difference. Did another log... this time with the engine up to temperature. Towards the end I got on the throttle and brought the revs up to ~2500 for a sustained few seconds.... so MOAR DATAZ. Penglii TGP 3rd Log.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 hmm..... RPM X 50 value is still getting cleared randomly... i decided to make my own hack for 8F and now i see why.... i also can't believe how many general bugs are in the code too... made a few more code mods, exploiting some buggy GM code while i'm at it..... for some reason, when the 2BAR MAP has a lookup done on it, it has some 16 bit math done on it, then both the MSB and LSB are stored, yet only the MSB is ever called again.... so for my purposes, instead of storing the LSB and MSB, just the MSB will be stored, even though the LSB will still be used for rounding the MSB up if necessary. does that "false start" always/usually happen? don't suppose you know the alcohol content of your fuel either? by looking at the WB, i want to say it's close to 10%, since when the ECM is commanding 14.7:1(and adjusting the BLM/INT for it), the WB sticks REALLY closely to 14.1:1. here is a modified version of the BIN you posted earlier. i wouldn't be going nuts yet(5200+ RPM or high throttle), i imported a N/A 3.1 VE table for the off-boost stuff, since it should be similar in theory, yet the stock TGP tables were all kinds of crazy. PENGLII_TGP_26lb_nAsty1 with patch byte 50.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 That is the 2nd or 3rd false start I've encountered. It is definitely not an all the time thing. As far as the alcohol content of the fuel... in theory the gas station I buy from sells ethanol free premium, but I would not be surprised if they are lying. Could also be that there's a can of sea foam in the tank that is not appropriately diluted... not a ton of gas in the tank right now. I should get more gas and see if that helps. I suppose the gas that's in there now is an eighth tank of 6 month old gas... 2 gallons of recent (but still probably winter blend) gas... and a can of sea foam I had laying around. I'm sure that's a great mixture. After I make and eat some dinner I'll try your new changes and post a new log at idle. Somehow I'm not surprised that 8F has a bunch of bugs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 hmm... should bump up the "choke" enrichment a little bit to make the transition from cranking to open loop fueling a little less significant, i assume that that false start is by a rapidly decreasing amount of fuel during that transition. seafoam, old gas, etc, etc, i could all be contributing.... feel free to keep logging, but i won't make any significant fueling changes based on the logs, since fresh gas could have a large effect on the WBO2 sensor. it kind of scared me to see so many inconsistencies in the stock 8F code, i'll have to avoid that when i finish the boost code for A1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Since the car has not been driven at all since 2010... and things are probably working well enough that I can take a short drive, maybe I'll take her down to the gas station and get some better gas in there before the gas prices go up again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penglii Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Well... did not go all the way down to the gas station, but I did take a short drive around the block. It was a success insofar as I left the driveway and made it back into the driveway... but it was a sort of scary drive. A bit of bucking, I guess it could be described as the acceleration had a slight lope to it.... died at one stop sign, and then died again while making the left hand turn. AFR was all over the place. I maybe should have datalogged this, but I forgot to do so... maybe I'll log a run around the block tomorrow. I did however log idle again breifly so we can check the 50X RPM again... PengliiTGP_4th_log.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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