Torque Management?

[jman093]

I had access to a borrowed tech 2 for awhile this evening and was using it to try and figure out what's wrong with my tranny and of course today was the first time since winter it wouldn't act up. But while I was looking through the data, one item listed with the transmission data was "traction control torque." This Traction Control Torque was listed as a percentage. It showed 89% at a stop or in park and reached down to about 40% under heavy throttle. No idea what this all means. I couldn't find any info on it. Do OBD-II w's have torque management and this has something to do with it?

[mfewtrail]

Yeah, it does have some "torque management" if the car has traction control(which yours obviously does). With your car being a '96, it probably just retards ignition timing to lower power output and might command a shift into a higher gear earlier than normal as well. Later cars can do other stuff to aid in traction.

[jman093]

I figured it was probably torque mgmt although I'm pretty sure my car or any Delco ABS-VI car does not have actual traction control. I even went through all the ABS data too while I had the tech 2 and it has nothing for TC, just normal ABS data (I did find out though the car has a steering angle sensor which I also didn't know any first gens had and mine isn't working right). Also if I spin the tires it will light the ABS low-trac light, but will do nothing to try and stop the spinning.

 

Any idea what those percentages mean, though? And is the torque mgmt editable with a DHP? If so it'd seem like a great way to crispen up our sloppy WOT shifts.

[mfewtrail]

I'm guessing that percentage is the amount of power it's trying to bring the engine down to in order to help regain traction...but I'm not sure about that. The early systems probably don't do a whole lot of anything really. I have no clue about whether or not you could change it with a DHP. Some of the others here with tuning experience on OBD-II cars might know.

[alec_b]

I've seen that value in a couple of GM cars, most good scanners (genesys, modis, etc) will show the value. As to what it means? No clue.

 

And I just have to say with all the shit you guys talk about the crappy 1st gen ABS systems, it REALLY makes me glad neither the GP or the regal came equipped as such.

[jman093]

Although it has "traction control" in the name, I actually think whatever this percentage indicates, it has nothing to do with ABS/Traction Control. If it did, it would be a part of the EBCM data, but this is in the PCM organized with the transmission data.

[BXX]

Yes, they do indeed have torque management. However! theres torque management during shifts (cuts fuel, retards timing during shifts) that is supposed to keep the shifts smooth and less harshness on the trans, and then torque management for abuse, which is annoying is hell. You wont notice a difference until its tuned out. That was the best part of the tune I did on my 96 CS.

 

 

And Alec, the Genysis isnt a good scan tool. Its a fuckin paperweight that im forced to use at work (All Firestones have the Genysis) and im sick of that fucking thing. Kinda why im buying a Solus Pro within a few weeks. If I had the extra money I would be getting a Modis.

[digitaloutsider]

X2 on everything Bob said.

[RobertISaar]

protip: the $DF cars (91-93 LQ1 and 93-94 LH0) have torque management. pulls X amount of spark advance(based on RPM) for X amount of time during/after a shift(based on RPM) if TPS and RPM are above X amount... nice simple and effective system IMO. there's also some stall torque management and engine abuse protection stuff writen in as well...

 

the GM engineers set up the LQ1 cars less aggressively than i expected, but they did make it obvious that they didn't want the 4T60Es blowing up faster than they already do...

[BXX]

They did the same thing for OBD2 3x00 and LQ1 cars as well.. 96 and 97 didnt see too much TR during shifts but still had decent amount of abuse more. Later years used more TR during shifts, especially when cold and it actually helped shift speed without harshness..

 

On my last tune I started working on TR during shifts for my old 96 CS. Not near the way I want it as I have it set too high and it makes itself wayy too noticable easily:p

[jman093]

Sounds like I need to buy a DHP myself! What are the percentages indicating though? 89% at no throttle and about 40% under high throttle?

[BXX]

HP Tuners + 97 PCM.

 

DHP would have to be found used.

 

Im not sure about the data you were seeing. Take into account our PCMs datastream does report some odd data. i.e. a scan tool hooked up (except a tech 2 or others with a PID modifier) will report negative timing.

 

You remember the exact PID for it??

[jman093]

HP Tuners + 97 PCM.

 

DHP would have to be found used.

 

Im not sure about the data you were seeing. Take into account our PCMs datastream does report some odd data. i.e. a scan tool hooked up (except a tech 2 or others with a PID modifier) will report negative timing.

 

You remember the exact PID for it??

 

No, not sure what a PID is. I was using a tech 2 though. Just select year, platform, brand, engine, and go.

[alec_b]

Yes, they do indeed have torque management. However! theres torque management during shifts (cuts fuel, retards timing during shifts) that is supposed to keep the shifts smooth and less harshness on the trans, and then torque management for abuse, which is annoying is hell. You wont notice a difference until its tuned out. That was the best part of the tune I did on my 96 CS.

 

 

And Alec, the Genysis isnt a good scan tool. Its a fuckin paperweight that im forced to use at work (All Firestones have the Genysis) and im sick of that fucking thing. Kinda why im buying a Solus Pro within a few weeks. If I had the extra money I would be getting a Modis.

 

I agree bob the genysis is no comparison to a solus or modis. We had the genysis at school (actually 4 of them, fully loaded) along with 2 tech 2's, a ford oem scanner and a chrysler oem scanner. I loved the factory equipment, but the genysis was a DINOSAUR. Hated everything about it, then when I actually got to work and started using the complete modis setup I couldn't believe the difference.

 

At the new job they have both a solus AND modis setup, and a genysis re-brand for backup. One of the tech's also has something called a hannatech that's like an incredible scanner for german cars (among others).

[BXX]

Yeah, Genysis + 4.0 can suck it.

 

Hopefully friday I will be getting the Solus. Wish it was sooner. Tomorrow im installing a ECBM in an Alero and will need to do the ABS autobleed but the Genysis cant do it on the Delphi 7 unit so we gotta take it to the dealer to be bled and programmed if needed.

 

And jman093, yeah, get that car tuned.. You wont believe just how much fun the car can be with the trans shift points changed and the TR and Abuse disabled.

[RobertISaar]

And jman093, yeah, get that car tuned.. You wont believe just how much fun the car can be with the trans shift points changed and the TR and Abuse disabled.

 

i honestly think that's why when i converted to OBD1 that the MC seemed so much more beastly.... for a stock 3100 anyways.

[BXX]

OBD1 3100 lacks TR and Abuse???

 

Why does that not suprise me:p

[xtremerevolution]

i honestly think that's why when i converted to OBD1 that the MC seemed so much more beastly.... for a stock 3100 anyways.

 

I'm going to go crazy if my 95 3800 has torque management. That shit is going out the window the moment I get the tuning equipment.

[BXX]

I would bet you do..

 

Then again if your top end at higher speeds seems to die off (which it does, but with a little help of the PCM) is due to COT (Cat over-temp)

 

Another lovely protection feature that cuts the fun!! I disabled COT on my old CS

[RobertISaar]

OBD1 3100 lacks TR and Abuse???

 

Why does that not suprise me:p

 

the 1.5 PCM seemed to... when i made my BIN for it, i just used or reduced the LH0 settings.... just that with a educated guess at a spark table was worth a WHOLE lot of power on the ass dyno.

 

I'm going to go crazy if my 95 3800 has torque management. That shit is going out the window the moment I get the tuning equipment.

 

if the 94-95 L27 H-car BIN i have is any indication, oh yeah, you do alright.

[alec_b]

So my '91 3800 has TM in it? That would be lame... I wonder what it would feel like with it taken out. I can just switch the prom in mine right? Hmm.... tune time? Lol

[xtremerevolution]

Damnit!!! Do you have any idea how many engine mounts I'm going to tear through if I disable torque management and COT?

[RobertISaar]

So my '91 3800 has TM in it? That would be lame... I wonder what it would feel like with it taken out. I can just switch the prom in mine right? Hmm.... tune time? Lol

 

possibly... i'm not as versed with the earlier 3800 masks as i am with the crash course i had trying to learn what andrei's setup uses...

 

Damnit!!! Do you have any idea how many engine mounts I'm going to tear through if I disable torque management and COT?

 

torque management: even more. COT: not likely to effect them. COT adds advance and richens AFRs quite a bit in an attempt to cool down the cat. i don't see it taking stress off of the mounts by much just due to by the time it activates, you'll already be at a good speed and it would only effect the mounts if it makes the shifts that much harsher.

[xtremerevolution]

Good thing my mounts are all lifetime warranty and I've gotten really good at replacing them.

[RobertISaar]

Good thing my mounts are all lifetime warranty and I've gotten really good at replacing them.

 

if i were you....

 

i'd carry spares at all times in the trunk, along with a barebones toolkit with everything necessary to change them.