Stereo opinion

[mdelorie]

Tell me what you guys think of this setup

 

for power:

Come off the alternator, on to a Scosche multibattery contactor, then out to each battery. One for the car, one for the stereo. Off the aux. battery, run my capacitor in parallel on it, then into a distribution block for my three amps, and also for my remote relay.

 

the relay:

for turning on amps, etc. use the 12V remote lead to trigger the relay. Question: Any ideas on how to distribute the wire coming off the relay into three separate leads for my amps? I could just solder 'em all together, but that would create a big nasty mess. I'm looking for something a little more elegant, however they don't make distribution blocks for 18 guage wire.

 

For sound:

Off the head unit, into each amp using MTX Expert or Scosche twisted pair line cords (haven't decided which)

 

Amps n' subs:

two Sony 760W amps driving each Sony 10" dual voice coil sub. 4 coils, 4 channels, 4 ohms.

 

one Sony 1200W Class D amp driving an Alpine 1541 15".

All boxes are sealed.

 

 

My biggest concern in all of this is delivering good, clean power to the stereo. Sure the auxilliary battery will help, but I guess I should probably upgrade my alternator too... I just can't afford it right now.

[92turboLE]

<~~~~ professional sterio installer... PM me if you want suggestions...

 

too lazy to much right now

 

- Justin

[LukeZ34]

Lose the sony stuff and you probably wouldn't need all the power upgrades. The Sony amps I had were the most inefficient units I have ever used.

I'm not in to the car audio like I used to be anymore. Costs too much money for me to afford anymore.

Sounds like quite the setup though.

[mdelorie]

*hrmph* I like my Sony stuff... I ain't losin' none of it!

 

Turbo... me = picky enough to be a professional anything. Thanks for the offer though.

[musthavemuzk]

well

 

not sure if i should or where to start.

 

but

 

first off there are many better brands imho than sony for amps.

especially since the ratings on them are insanely inacurate

 

why multiple sizes of subs?

 

why a capacitor?

if you are doing multiple batts properly then a capacitor is not needed.

 

is this off the stock alt?

if so you are gonna be stressing that alt way too much.

best to upgrade to a high output alt. will last longer and provide plenty of juice to both batts too.

 

where is the second batt located at?

recommended to have like batteries as well as same age batteries so they both draw the same. instead of fighting each other.

are they sealed batteries?

if the second one goes in the trunk then there should still be some kind of venting to the outside if possible. as it can get warm in the trunk. just a safety issue with the venting.

 

Monty

[mdelorie]

Exactly... in YOUR opinion.

 

Why use subs and tweeters in the first place? Different cone size, different frequency response.

 

A capacitor has the capability to discharge its current a lot faster than a battery. It's just helping with the 'on demand' current situation.

 

The switching on my battery contactor is manual, so I'm never charging two batteries simultaneously.

 

yes, I know about the alternator, again, I can't afford HO right now.

[mdelorie]

nobody has any suggestions on distributing a remote signal off a relay?

[92Cutlass4Dr]

I wouldn't bother with 2 different sizes of subs unless you are planning to spend a whole hell of a lot of money on better amps and fancy crossovers/sound processors. If you use multiple sub sizes, you need to have some sort of a crossover between the subs or they will be out of phase and cancel each other out and basically sound terrible if you don't.

 

What about the rest of your system? Have you upgraded the rest of your speakers already? The reason i ask is if you drop to one sub size, you can spend some money on a 4 channel and some better speakers.

 

Why a relay? You can use the 12v turn-on lead from your deck and split it using a butt connector or a crimp cap. I think you're doing too much work. You could also just run a wire from the deck to one amp and then run short wires from that amp to the other turn-on inputs on the other two amps.

 

Get the alternator, even if you have to save to get it. You might just need the alternator and not the extra battery. You risk spending more money on repairs from frying the alternator and other electrical components in your car. it's not worth the headaches

 

Return the Sony stuff and buy from a brand that is actually known for making GOOD amps and speakers. Sony IS NOT known for good amps and speakers. Look at JL Audio, Kicker, Alpine, Eclipse, Zapco, Pheonix Gold, Fosgate (Power or RF series, not Punch) to start.

 

Sony does not deserve the reputation they have, they've bought it with marketing. I'm not saying everything sony makes is garbage, but they are not known for good amps or speakers unless you look at the top end sony home-theater receivers, and their home speakers are often scary. They make awesome tube tvs and computer monitors and some other things, but not car audio!

[mdelorie]

Thanks for the opinions and support (criticism) guys... really appreciate it.

 

But, looks like I'll be keeping things exactly the same.

[sl3196]

Hey I have a 10" sony exploid in a bandpass box and it doesn't sound too bad for a wal-mart special. But I do have a ma audio 1000watt mono block amp and ma audio digital capacitor. The good thing about a sony from wal-mart is you can take it back if you blow it. Their amps are pretty crappy though. Get a capacitor also.

[musthavemuzk]

well i am not a car audio god or anything but i do spend 80%+ of my waking and sleeping hours thinking or talking car audio. and have learned a thing or two from trial and error and the trial and error of others on various car audio forums. one of choice is http://www.soundillusions.net though i frequent a few.

 

as for the remote turn on lead from the HU to multiple amps. it is best to run a relay to increase the lifespan of the turnon relay. in general it is meant to turn on 1 or 2 items. but all amps and processors need that signal to turn on.

i have seen used and have used barrier strips to accomplish this. hit up http://www.radioshack.com and look for barrier strip to see what i am talking about. be sure to fuse the power to the relay.

 

this is another option if you are anal about fusing things for protection

http://www.wranglernw.com/commerce/ItemDetail.asp?ItemNo=30%2D552

stinger i believe makes something similar to that.

 

it would be best to get the HO alt before the extra batt, capacitor and isolator. or you will be buying a new alt in no time.

http://www.h-o-alternators.com you can get a price quote online from them. just fill out the info as complete as possible

or dominick at Dominick@tds.net he is a competitor and retailer so he has a good idea on what he is doing.

those are the two i recommend

 

unless the batteries are deep cycle then you will be shortening the lifespan of them by discharging them in the manner you say you will be by turning the iso batt to batt manually.

 

i know what a capacitor is for. i just think the money spent for that could be better spent on HO alt, battery, upgraded grounds and proper size wiring. if you are constantly pushing the system then that cap is not fully charging as it should be. it is a bandaid for a inadequate electrical system imho. if you get a good battery and a sufficient alt you should have a nice electrical system.

 

why get tweeter? that is just a dumb question. might as well say why bother with aftermarket anything. as the factory is sufficient.

 

as for the RF, JL, Alpine being superior.

i dunno about that.

just cuz they charge more does not mean they are better

ever heard of

elemental designs http://www.edesignaudio.com

avionixx same site as above

resonant engineering http://www.respl.com

digital designs http://www.ddaudio.com

those are the first to come off my head that are not mainstream brands that give you a good product at a fair price.

 

but if that is the brand he chose then so be it.

just not a brand i would choose for car audio.

 

Monty

[musthavemuzk]

Thanks for the opinions and support (criticism) guys... really appreciate it.

 

But, looks like I'll be keeping things exactly the same.

 

not trying to dog ya man

just trying to do some education

 

as for the dif size subs.

the other guy hit it on the head.

to many issues with cancellation and such.

 

i have ran a single 12 for a couple years for daily and have shocked many ppl thinking i had more.

then this year in the comp lanes i ran a single 15 and shocked many more. wondering how i hit the number i hit with a single 15 non mainstream brand.

 

was just looking at your setup again

are the gains properly setup on the two amps running two dvc subs?

there could be some issues there with improper gains. especially since you are running the dvc subs in stereo (right) off each amp.

 

just for kicks

 

have you tried running just the 15 and its amp?

 

or just the two 10's off of the bigger amp? you can wire the subs a 4 ohm or a 1ohm load.

 

ever tried porting the 15 and running just it?

 

or porting the two 10's and running just them?

 

might be suprised if you just give ti a try

 

Monty

[musthavemuzk]

are all the grounds upgraded from factory?

 

is the power wire to each amp the same size as the ground wire for each amp?

 

are they grounded to the same spot? short as possible?

 

is there a inline fuse in the power wire to reduce the risk of fire if the wire gets overloaded and melts the casing or if the casing gets cut. thuse causing power wire to ground metal sparks. just like taking a wire from pos on batt to frame and you see sparks. not a good thing.

 

is the power wire from front to back of suffiecient size for the amps you are running?

 

as for under hood upgraded grounds.

batt to frame ground needs to be at least as big as the power wire from batt to d-block in trunk.

block to frame ground needs to be the same size too.

alt to batt positive need to be as big as possible too.

these are called the big three that help in getting things in order for the electrical system.

 

Monty

[Bolt_Crank]

nobody has any suggestions on distributing a remote signal off a relay?

 

 

run one wire to your amps (which are probably going to be on an amp rack.... riiiight?) and then from one amp, run the remote to the other amp, then from that one to the next one. (you get miles of that little blue wire anyway ) basically hook the remote up in series

 

 

 

and get an HO alt and a capacitor anyway... it'll help

[Aaron]

To start off this is not Aaron so don't flame him this is a friend.

 

For sony - I personaly have a Sony MP80 cd player with everything from aux in (dvd, xbox, computer the works in my F-Body) to 4volt pre out, to mp3, to g protection, and I love that head unit. As for their subs and amps - I got 2 XPlod DVC subs rated at 500watts RMS each, bridged them into a 4ohm indipendence and pluged them into my JBL 1200.1 and had burning voice coils in record time.... craped. As for the amps, my friend got their 2000 watt amp and, well to tell the truth when we plugged it into my system (which happens to have an indepence of 1ohm) we almost melted the amp, and on top of that is sounded horrible. I do love my head unit though.

 

For what you should do - yes you could do your sauder thing, but its pointless. The amps turn on when they sence 12V flowing through the remote turn on wire. This 12V can come from your head unit (deck) or your ignition. Dont over complicate it. It sounds like you want some power, so start at the beginning. New alternator, if you have the 3.4 DOHC then I will tell you it is a whore to change that thing, and you are going to be sending out some amps, get one rated for 180+++ amps. Next get an amp kit in the 4 guage variety with a MINIMUM of an 80 amp fuse. Any generic amp kit will work, its just power. Ebay has some REAL cheap. follow this up with a big capacitor. 2.4 Farad's are cheap on ebay now as well, you will need this anyway if you are going to run 2 batteries or you will probly over volt your system if you dont do it right. Next get a good amplifier. USA Accoustics makes some powerfull stuff if you are carefull. Also JBL. My JBL1200.1 is a class "D" that puts out 1200 watts RMS power at 2ohm and at 12.1 volts. My car runs at about 14.1 volts, and my system is bridged into 1 ohm. The amplifier claims the power doesnt go up at 1ohm, but do some tests and you will see you get 500 more watts. This amp is putting out 1782watts continious, when i tried higher i blew fuses.

 

Now get some subs. Two 12" DVC subs are awesome for everything, the RF Punch HX2's will fry with this set up, the Power HX2's will survive perfectly. MTX8000's will go boom as well, and trust me when I say JL w6v2 will cook some eggs. This is also assuming you paralel each voice coil to the amp and get 1ohm (with two 4ohm DVC subs). What I have is two RF Power HX2's just because they are the only thing I could find cheap (ebay) and new that could handle the power. FYI- with 1.4 cubic feet per sub in a 1" MDF custom box I hit 152db easy. The Power HX2 is also a dual 2ohm voice coil so wireing is fun to get your desired independence. I go into competetions with an amp rated at 1200 watts, the poor souls with Legacy 4000 watt amps just dont know wtf is hitting them. Legacy/Sony/Pioneer/Kenwood/Boss = rated at 1/4 to 2 ohms @ 14.4 volts for peak watts. JBL/USamps/Kove rated at 2ohm @ 12.1 volts for RMS, it means you get into compititions with a lower rating but truely more power =D

 

4guage wire -> 2.4 farad cap -> big amp -> two 12" subs (1-2ohm) -> lots of dynomat and some loud crap, stay away from sony subs/amp I love their deck (Sony MP80)

[musthavemuzk]

so talk to me Aaron's friend.

 

what comps do you hit and so on and so forth? ya know kind of mic, mic placement, doors windows open or shut, car on or off?

you can holla here or at my SD page http://www.sounddomain.com/id/musthavemuzk or my email

montymuzk at hotmail.com

 

i am interested how you can run that much power through a 80 amp fuse and 4 gauge wire and hit 152 db's. without meltdown.

not trying to be a dink here just curious on how you do this.

 

saxman over at http://www.soundillusions.net just got a 300 amp alt from irragi alts. said it was a pretty simple thing to do. he had to save for a bit though. but once he got that in he was able to hold at least at 12V instead of down to 10V. he was running about 5kw this season. with multiple batteries as well.

he ran usaci mod 601+ this season around the upper midwest. MN, SD, IA

 

anyways

just think it would be in the best interest for some education before you went and dropped a bunch of cash on unnecessary things.

hit a reputable car audio shop for the basics

or

hit many of the reputable online car audio forums for the basics

or

go to http://go.to/bcae/ for the basics

 

if you want to go with your previous choices go right ahead and do it.

 

i am just saying to get the most out of it with the least money spent on foolishness and non needed extras.

 

a solid foundation in a system will yield the best results for a prolonged period of time.

i have seen many a batteries killed and replaced as they thought they could do key off with 1000 plus watts for long periods of time.

i have seen the look of shock on faces when small systems blow away big systems.

 

Monty

[Aaron]

so talk to me Aaron's friend.

 

i thought Aaron didnt have friends........

[Aaron]

For what competitions, IASCA and USAC, with IASCA being the closest. 4guage wire can easily put out 150db, but I meant to say with a 180amp fuse. At least that is what I have even though it is over kill, I would be fine with a 120amp but hey always for the future. The mic was placed 6" away from the front windshield, and my windows are sealed, unless I'm trying for SQ. The shape of the windshield in my firebird forces me to do this. Also, the most important aspect in my opinion to high SPL or SQ would be the box. Always get a ported box, and always learn how to tune the ports for the accoustics of your car. You can have 2 JL W7's and some awesome amps, but still not put out high numbers if your box isnt tuned to your car. Just my 10 cents from quite a bit of experience with car audio.

[musthavemuzk]

cool

i thought we all had friends?

 

i know big numbers can be done with small power

here is a forum by someone i know from soundillusions.

he has managed a 150+ with little power and single sub on the linearX MECA style

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/forums/

he goes by black00 or marshall-black00

his latest creation is SIC. especially since it is low power high number on the linear X mix.

 

anyways

 

i know a thing or two about car audio as well.

of course still some to learn, but always gaining knowledge.

 

just gotta remember that the sub plays a small part of the whole SQ equation. a good SQ system will have the sub playing up to 40 or 50 hertz and the other speaks pick up from there to 20,000 hertz.

 

Monty