RobertISaar Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 want to tune on your own? pick up a BURN2($85) from moates.net you'll also need a few chips($5 each) and a G1 w/ a ZIF socket($~45 IIRC) to make life easier.... the software to do it is free though... TP RT + 8F XDF and XDF would get you a long way. an ALDL cable is also highly recomended so you're ot tuning blind. or i could set you up with a top gun 160, with any changes made that you would want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 want to tune on your own? pick up a BURN2($85) from moates.net you'll also need a few chips($5 each) and a G1 w/ a ZIF socket($~45 IIRC) to make life easier.... the software to do it is free though... TP RT + 8F XDF and XDF would get you a long way. an ALDL cable is also highly recomended so you're ot tuning blind. or i could set you up with a top gun 160, with any changes made that you would want. Robert thanks for the advice. so your saying for about $150 i can purchase everything o Do it myself? where do I get the dump files from.... I maybe interested in the topgun chip. PM me or call me with a price on that chip. Also maybe i can pay you for your advice. What is the type of chips i need to buy? what free software should i use? please eloborate on what the TP RT + 8F XDF and XDF is? and what specific aldl cable? Please tell me the specifcs parts i need and where i can buy them. I want to get everything i need. thanks so much guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 computer was checked, it looks to be stock with the following: ECM: service no:1227727 867131 M811080501 16087131 AMAS Chip sticker: Delco ATMK 5205 imprinted on chip: 014 045915 AA89038 I now want to buy the Burn2 chip burning equipment, where do i go for all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 I need to order the Fuel pump. i understand i need a Walbro 255 L/hour HP. Walbro P/N 20000169 Whats the fuel filter part no? do i only need these two parts? where is the cheapest / quickest place to order from... I want to order this in the morning... thanks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Robert thanks for the advice. so your saying for about $150 i can purchase everything o Do it myself? where do I get the dump files from.... I maybe interested in the topgun chip. PM me or call me with a price on that chip. Also maybe i can pay you for your advice. What is the type of chips i need to buy? what free software should i use? please eloborate on what the TP RT + 8F XDF and XDF is? and what specific aldl cable? Please tell me the specifcs parts i need and where i can buy them. I want to get everything i need. thanks so much guys... i have the latest GM TGP BIN if you want to start with that(AZRC). for just basic tuning capabilites, grab a couple of C2 chips from moates.net. if you want to get into fancy stuff like i have, grab some C3 chips(and a G3 adapter) and then you can start playing with stuff like having 16 tunes on one chip and being able to select any of them with a couple touches of a button on a controller you can mount in-car. software: tunerpro RT is tough to beat. i would grab both the V4 and V5 versions since there are a few quirks left to be ironed out in V5 yet. the 8F XDF is what is needed to define the different values in the BIN. the ADX defines the values in the datastream. i'll probably email them to you if necessary since the ones on the TP site MAY be outdated since the last time they were updated. computer was checked, it looks to be stock with the following: ECM: service no:1227727 867131 M811080501 16087131 AMAS Chip sticker: Delco ATMK 5205 imprinted on chip: 014 045915 AA89038 I now want to buy the Burn2 chip burning equipment, where do i go for all of this? the ECM is from a 88 2.8 w-body... but it does have a TGP PROM (although it is actually the first revision for non-california cars), so no worries there, just be aware that the PO changed the ECM at one point. anything tuning related can get gotten from moates.net. you can build your own ALDL cable for fairly cheap, or hell i can make you one if you don't feel up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 UPDATE: Walbro fuel pump ordered and in the mail. I hope to have yellow top injectors and new pump in by this weekend. then tuning... Robert, agian thanks for the help. How much would you sell the topgun chip for? Also as i understand I just need to purchase a Burn2 and C2 or C3 chips from moates.net and make my own ALDL cable? So should i just buy those two things from that site and make a aldl cable? is there anything else to consider at this point? Here is my current build: Stock TGP Engine Completely rebuild 4T60 Transmission with shift kit New plugs / Wires - Duralast wireset #002751 4040 - Autolite Spark Plugs - #514733 103 Cat removed / stock mufflers walbro 255 Fuel Pump Ford Yellow Top Injectors what air filter or intake setup should i consider? Should I get different plugs and wires? or are these fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 i'm not too foind of duralast anything, but they should last a few years. not sure on the autolite numbers since the recomendded ACDelcos are the only thing i like since they're guaranteed to work correctly. just a TG chip? i would let it go for ~$75 shipped with the necessary adapter. but if you want to burn and tune on your own, i don't know why you would want to buy stuff from me, just to be able to do it on your own... i can dig up my schematics from when i made my ALDL cable, i can guarantee it works as well, i've used it on 2 vehicles so far with fantastic results(at least as good as the $60 one i bought from aldlcable.com, but at least i can replace stuff easily if/when it wears out, not something easily done by the hobbyist soldering iron). and if you decide to burn stuff on your own, keep in mind: the G1 adapter uses the C2(28-pin DIP) chips, the G3 adapter uses C3(32-pin DIP) chips. the only advantage the G3 has over the G1 is the ability to switch between multiple tunes instantly. and it would be intelligent to have a matching ZIF socket on top of either adapter since you REALLY don't want to wear out the chips pins or the adapter's socket, it will cause all kinds of intermittent issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 I am just getting used to burning chips and swapping out bin files on my upgraded eproms. eprom is the blue "chip" in the pic above. I have several eeprom I had adam(turbo v-sick) build outta my stock eprom. I send them to him and he installs an atmel chip inside (where you see the topgun 160 inside that little window) and after that you can easily reflash the bin file using a pocket programmer and a special interface thingy I had to order from digikey and get instructions for modifying it. the stuff robertisaar uses is the latest equipment moates has for us and is probably way less archaic. I am not too sure what it looks like installed either, but mine looks and acts like a stock setup other than you can see an atmel chip through that window. and the pins are stock with no signs of wear and appear pretty solid. If you are careful and remove the eprom and install it properly each time with the fuse out and press the side clips down with even pressure you should be fine. I just got into all this for myself recently. opens up a whole new world of fun for these cars. eeprom means electronically eraseable prom by the way. just like that newer stuff. the atmel chips have actually been out for awhile and now I guess they are obsolete but I am just now getting used to it and having good luck flashing them. I cant tune yet but you can get someone here to custom tune your car via email and datalogging if you can hook up a wideband O2 and get it to mesh with tunerpro software and the moates cables. That's where I have been having problems getting the afr readings to appear as they should using the 0-5 volt analog WB signal through tunerpro, so I can not get my tune completed yet. not sure why its giving me problems, but its really holding me up more than anything else right now. anyway I will start a seperate thread for that, but good luck with getting set up. It is good to see a new guy wanting to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 pocket programmer? do they even still make those damn things? and you COULD solder in a flash chip like a C2 in place of the factory EPROM and use a HDR1 from moates and plug one end of the HDR1 into the burner and the other into the bottom of the MEMCAL and burn that way... i've done it a few times and would actually save you the $35 it would cost for a G1 adapter, assuming you can solder well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 oh yeah, what I said I was wrong above. the eprom is in the window of the memcal. i keep forgetting. thats what I do is plug the memcal into the adapter, then that plugs into the pocket programmer. the eeprom just stays in the blue cover so the pins you are talking about (on the eprom?) never get worn out. I have a old pocket programmer 2 I bought used for a pretty good deal. it works good though. found it on craigslist. sounds like you could do something very similar with moates parts. will the ecm cover still go on with that G1 thing? do you have any pics of it installed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 heres what I am working with: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 it has a ribbon cable to the printer port. I wonder also, are those new ones made domestically? this one says it was made in kansas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 Update: I tested all of the injectors and come to find out all of them were between 12.4 and 12.8 except cylinder 6 was at 3.4 hehe. I was happy to see this since the injectors are on the way. I plan to purchase all of the chip / programmer from moates.net. any last advace? also advice on air filters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 installed pic... everything fits fine in a 1227727 and the cover screws down like it should. and the BURN2 from moates, i would assume it's american made, but honestly couldn't tell you. it's also all USB. jon: if you have decent soldering skills(and want to save a few bucks), just grab a couple of things from moates: a C2 chip or two, the BURN2 and a HDR1($10 and is basically that little blue adapter thing that's on the first pic of the page, except it was made specifically for this(and it would allow you to read stock MEMCALs as well)). that covers the burning portion. moates offers a nice ALDL setup as well, but that's ~$80... again, if you have decent soldering skills, it's fairly cheap and easy to make your own. i made a USB one for $28 including shipping costs. a serial cable costs something like $12 to make... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 installed pic... everything fits fine in a 1227727 and the cover screws down like it should. and the BURN2 from moates, i would assume it's american made, but honestly couldn't tell you. it's also all USB. jon: if you have decent soldering skills(and want to save a few bucks), just grab a couple of things from moates: a C2 chip or two, the BURN2 and a HDR1($10 and is basically that little blue adapter thing that's on the first pic of the page, except it was made specifically for this(and it would allow you to read stock MEMCALs as well)). that covers the burning portion. moates offers a nice ALDL setup as well, but that's ~$80... again, if you have decent soldering skills, it's fairly cheap and easy to make your own. i made a USB one for $28 including shipping costs. a serial cable costs something like $12 to make... I will purchase all of the recommended items from moates.net today where do I purchase the ALDL cable components from and is there a write-up on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 I will order the following parts: BURN2 Chip Programmer USB Chip Programmer works with the AT29C256, 27SF512, and AM29F040 chips. Self-powered from the USB port, so no power adapter is needed! Burner can also be used to read stock GM memcals using the HDR1 adapter. While it will only program the three types of chips listed, please note that those three chips can be used as drop-in replacements for most EFI applications. Comes with stand-alone chip programming software (available for download). Also compatible with TunerPro RT. Will read most stock-style chips (2732A, 27C128/256/512/etc). Mini-USB cable is included. HDR1 Memcal Header Use this adapter to read the 'stock' binary from your TPI-style Memcal. Plugs into your 'stock' P4-style Memcals. Allows you to download your original 'factory' chip contents directly using a chip programmer/reader like the BURN1 or APU1. Very durable, and designed for repeated use. C2 SST 27SF512 Chip Works fine as a drop-in replacement for the AT29C256. These work great with the G1, G3, F1, etc. This is the max size for a 28-pin chip. When the C1 isn't big enough, such as Ford EEC-IV applications or later-model TBI GM systems, this chip will do the trick. 90ns flash drop-in replacement for 27C512 EPROMs. Make sure your programmer supports it, there's a funky programming erase voltage required (BURN1, APU1, or PocketProgrammer2 should be fine, APS1 is not). Works fine with 1227165, 1227730, and other similar ECMs. If your car normally takes a 27C128, 27C256, or 27C512, these should work for you. Just adjust the 'Start of Device' value when programming. (For 27C128 original, set to C000 hex. For 27C256 original, set to 8000 hex.) I am going to need Dump files? does anyone have any for my setup. I want to start playing with the software since I will have the car together this weekend I wanna maximize the yellow top injectors, crank up the boost on the stock turbo and either buy a air filter or make some custom intake/filter, recomendations? Any dump files for this, or where should i safely start? Can i increase the boost via the computer or do i need a manual boost controller? if so whats the max boost my setup could handle? any recommended boost gauges or pillar mounts? I once seen someone with a nice dash mount pod that seemed to fit the TGP dash perfectly, does anyone know where I can get one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 (edited) no write-up, just a fairly simple diagram... can get MOST of the components from radioshack or somewhere similar, but the MAX232 chip i can find when i some more time... i paid $3 shipped for a pair of them. http://robertisaar.co.cc/web_images/max232_aldl.pdf and a consideration: if you decide to solder in a new chip instead of using an adapter, a 28-pin DIP socket might be a good idea as well, that way if the chip dies for some reason, you won't have to desolder everything, you'll just need to remove the chip from the DIP socket, jus try not to make it a habit or else it can wear out. EDIT: i don't know if i would crank up the boost TOO much since the T25 is already undersized for a 3.1, but if you run good enough fuel, i can see a couple more PSI getting squeezed out of it. you can change desired boost levels through tuning, no need for a manual controller since the TGP ECM controls a wastegate solenoid. if you have a blow-off valve(i really can't remember off the top of my head), then you may want to make sure you don't exceed it's PSI rating/setting or else that extra boost will be for nothing. by dump files, you mean BINs? i have the latest factory one and could send you a few others i've run across for a TGP... Edited May 19, 2010 by RobertISaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 K/N RU1390 I think. off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 What fuel filter should I use or does it really matter? What fuel screen should I Use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 K/N RU1390 I think. off the top of my head. I could not find this part number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo v-sick Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 It's a RU-1380 Like the one seen here.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-N-RU-1380-Air-Filter-Element-Filtercharger-Oval-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cef6a9f37QQitemZ330434256695QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Update: Walbro fuel pump installed ford yellow top injectors installed replaced all gaskets needed the car now runs great except for the following: you must hold the key and have the car turn over for 3-5 seconds for it to start. it idles and runs great, does not seem to miss. the car will accelerate very fast now, however after holding the throttle wide open the car cuts out after 5-10 seconds, with the same results in various gears and speeds. these problems were with stock air filter and tubing? I have now received the K/N air filter, I assume i bolt it on to the turbo? what do i do with the breather hose thing that goes from the stock air box to the valve cover? other thoughts? i have an exhaust leak. it seems to be coming from the stock coss-over pipe. would this cause the car to cut out at WOT after 5-10 seconds, there seems to be plenty of boost? patiently waiting for the moates gear. Robert, I plan to burn both of the dumps you gave me? should I try one or the other of these modded chips to fix my problems? or should I fix the cutting out problem prior to chipping the car? this build is starting to turn out awesome, thanks for the support guys. almost there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 the TG160 and stock TGP tune is setup for stock injectors IIRC... you may need to adjust the injector related stuff to compensate for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 other issues... i still have not been in the trunk, the trunk pop button doest work, were can i hot wire the trunk pop wire solenoid from?? also the electric mirrors dont work? i checked all the fuses, they look good. the pass. side wind shield wiper flies off the car instead of stopping on the wind shield, how do i go about fixing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongrappin Posted May 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 the TG160 and stock TGP tune is setup for stock injectors IIRC... you may need to adjust the injector related stuff to compensate for it I thought i could run the upgraded injectors and fuel pump on stock computer. this is what is setup curently ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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