Stuck lifter?

[xtremerevolution]

No the gaskets and the fact you bought new bolts are helping you, I would take one of the valve covers off and see if the bolts are still at 70 ft/lbs also when the covers are off see if you can freely spin any of the pushrods, they are not supposed to move. I know pushrods are expensive when you buy a whole the last 3400 I did I did not replace pushrods and this caused them to tick, i ran resolone through the engine it did not quiet it down then I bought new pushrods and the sound went away.

 

I might as well do that then. The pushrods are only $1.83 on rockauto. What's another $25...

 

You think there's any chance at all that a lifter could be bad? I'm being told that its rare for a 3800 lifter to fail.

[IRONDOG442]

My friends 3800 Series II in his 1999 LSS (yes the one I just did a LIM on) just had a lifter totally collapse in cylinder #4, his exhaust valve isnt opening in that cylinder at all it is making a horrible sound and the entire engine barely runs. I will be fixing it as soon as roach is done.

[xtremerevolution]

My friends 3800 Series II in his 1999 LSS (yes the one I just did a LIM on) just had a lifter totally collapse in cylinder #4, his exhaust valve isnt opening in that cylinder at all it is making a horrible sound and the entire engine barely runs. I will be fixing it as soon as roach is done.

 

Do you think a faulty lifter might be the cause of my engine vibration under idle, or is that my desperate need for a tune.

[WrathOfSocrus]

I just pulled an L36 out of an '01 Impala. The old engine had most of the lifters stuck down below the retaining clip meaning they were clogged up. The replacement motor was exactly the same. It doesn't cost any money to tear them apart and clean them up. You should be able to easily depress the plunger by hand using a pushrod.

 

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/tce-ls-lifter-springs/prod_231.html

 

For whatever it is worth I am told all of the replacement lifters made after a certain date (somewhere after 2000) on the 3800 use the same parts as the LS motors so those springs listed can be considered a direct replacement. However with the info there you should be able to reuse the existing hardware and put it back together. Clean out the gunk thoroughly and oil up the pistons before you reassemble. If you are down that far in the motor at any time then it is kind of silly not to clean them out.

[xtremerevolution]

Wish I would have known this ahead of time.

 

I'm almost 1000 miles into this oil change. When I have to change the oil again, I'll remove and clean out the lifters.

[Brian P]

I just had a lifter go bad from a NEW set, out of the box. It didn't hold oil, just pissed right out thru the pushrod. I gotta tear it apart to see what failed inside...

[xtremerevolution]

Might be worth noting, the ticking sound is practically gone now. Its only really audible while the engine is cold, and when the engine warms up, its more faint.

 

The bigger problem now is the vibration at idle, which I'm still guessing may be the tune. Unless a lifter isn't acting properly, but in that case I might assume that I would hear some noise.

[xtremerevolution]

Damn, the car runs lik SHIT when it warms up to 210 degrees. If it stays at 180 where the thermostat is, its great, but power goes down significantly, idle vibration increases, and the torque curve becomes very unpredictable when its not. It runs best between 160 and 180 degrees. When I get to tuning after I replace this radiator, I'll make sure to have that engine fan turn on at 185 degrees, not 215.

Edited April 30, 2010 by xtremerevolution

[RobertISaar]

i wouldn't say 185 since there will be some up-and-down to the sensor just due to flucuations in flow... but 190 would be fine. then have fan 2 come on at 195 should fan 1 not be able to cool it down sufficiently.

 

and that motor seems to run the exact opposite of the GP's LH0... kinda hesitant when cold(which tuning will not seem to remove), but smooth and predictable when warm...

[xtremerevolution]

Good idea on the 190 degrees. The car's amazing when its at around 150 or 160. It pulls really hard and the powerband is really even. When it warms up, the power from 2500-3000 is a bit low and uneven. I might even drill two small holes in the thermostat to help bleed the system better and cool it slightly more.

[xtremerevolution]

Replaced the radiator today. Imagine that...the cooling system actually holds pressure now!!! Amazing...

 

On the other side of the upper hose on the radiator, there was a 2 inch long crack in the plastic. Go figure...

 

The $80 shipped replacement radiator from ebay fit perfectly and works perfectly as well.

 

Funny story...we have a 300 some foot gravel driveway. FedEx calls me today to ask if our house is at the end of the driveway. I tell him yes, and he replies "is it ok if I leave this package on top of the mailbox?" The fairly large box contained my radiator...

[Night Fury]

Lolwtf!

[RobertISaar]

radiators: not fragile or in any way desireable to theives.

[Addicted to eaton]

I wouldn't say that!. they can be sold for Aluminum price! LOL

[RobertISaar]

I wouldn't say that!. they can be sold for Aluminum price! LOL

 

i think teh sarcasm flew over your head anthony...

[xtremerevolution]

A few thoughts I wanted to run by you.

 

Is it safe to assume that the knock I'm getting is false knock given that filling up with premium fuel seems to have absolutely no effect on the knock registers?

 

In regard to my car running better while cold, I was reading over on the bonneville forum for Series 2 3800's with OBD2 that the knock sensor doesn't start registering until the engine has been warmed up a bit. Is this true? Would this explain why my car runs so much better when cold and starts to hesitate under acceleration when warmed up?

[Crazy K]

I've mentioned to you that I pull lifters, open them up and remove all the sludge inside.... You'd have to pull the Intake off, but you could take remove and inspect them.... guess the valve covers must come off, too.

 

 

speaking of which, I need to talk to you about the rockers you have....

[RobertISaar]

normally, there is a coolant temperature qualifier for ignoring the knock sensor, i can't remember what the stock value is ATM, but yes, it would make sense. i don't normally drive under that temperature anyway(i set it to like 80*F) but it is a strong possibility.

 

and if there is NO difference at all when going from piss-water 87 octane to ~92 or higher, then it must be either false knock or preignition. pulling the front three plug and inspecting them for little flecks of metal on the ceramic or ground strap (or if the ground strap and/or is melting/chipped) would determine if it is preignition. i find it unlikely, but hey, it could happen, and if it is, it NEEDS to be taken care of.

[xtremerevolution]

I've mentioned to you that I pull lifters, open them up and remove all the sludge inside.... You'd have to pull the Intake off, but you could take remove and inspect them.... guess the valve covers must come off, too.

 

 

speaking of which, I need to talk to you about the rockers you have....

 

Yep, next oil change (750 more miles to go), I'm going to pull off the intake and clean out the lifters. I already bought new pushrods, just in case.

 

What do you need to know about the rockers?

[xtremerevolution]

normally, there is a coolant temperature qualifier for ignoring the knock sensor, i can't remember what the stock value is ATM, but yes, it would make sense. i don't normally drive under that temperature anyway(i set it to like 80*F) but it is a strong possibility.

 

and if there is NO difference at all when going from piss-water 87 octane to ~92 or higher, then it must be either false knock or preignition. pulling the front three plug and inspecting them for little flecks of metal on the ceramic or ground strap (or if the ground strap and/or is melting/chipped) would determine if it is preignition. i find it unlikely, but hey, it could happen, and if it is, it NEEDS to be taken care of.

 

Last time I pulled the plugs to check for compression, they all looked just fine. Definitely not chipped or melting. Everything looked just as it should be. I'll have a look at the old acdelco rapdifires that were in there before that when I get home, since I replaced those thinking they might have been causing my problems.

[xtremerevolution]

Looks like I'm tearing into the engine earlier than planned. The ticking has gotten annoyingly loud. You can now hear it from inside the car at all times (whereas before there would be days where you wouldn't hear anything at all), and its definitely valvetrain. It is very repetitive to each valve's motion. I removed the oil cap on the valve cover and watched the rocker, and its movement was perfectly synchronized with the ticking. I'm going to pull some extra lifters while I'm at the junkyard just in case.

 

Its strange, because from time to time, at idle, the noise becomes very loud.

 

One other thing to notice, the car is a complete dog. I have absolutely no power. Part of it has to do with the fact that the A/C is on, but its almost just as bad with the A/C off. At a little over half throttle, I can barely accelerate up a typical road hill in 2nd gear at 30 mph. Its really pretty bad. I have to nearly floor it to get any decent acceleration anywhere.

 

One strange thing, a few times while I was driving, I'd go about 2/3 throttle and the car would very slowly accelerate, and then all of a sudden, it would just launch and accelerate exactly the way it should out of nowhere. It happened a few times now.

 

Also, the car runs GREAT while cold, and runs like complete shit when warmed up.

Edited May 26, 2010 by xtremerevolution

[RobertISaar]

sounds like the knock sensor was going nuts and the PCM was pulling LOTS of timing, then all of a sudden the knock sensor shut up and you got full power back...

[xtremerevolution]

sounds like the knock sensor was going nuts and the PCM was pulling LOTS of timing, then all of a sudden the knock sensor shut up and you got full power back...

 

Yep, that's exactly what it sounds like.

 

Would it be a good idea to disconnect the knock sensor for now? The car really does run like ass.

[RobertISaar]

Yep, that's exactly what it sounds like.

 

Would it be a good idea to disconnect the knock sensor for now? The car really does run like ass.

 

BAD idea, as i believe the PCM will pull a set amount of timing with it disconnected...

[alec_b]

Seems like you need to do something about that knock sensor.

 

This may not apply much to our cars, but I know that a VERY common issue on nissan's is knock sensor's being overly sensitive and often becoming inoperable. It's so common, in fact, that the nissan PCM won't even set a CEL for the knock sensor, even though it will store a code! I can't tell you how many of the 3.0 nissan's I've worked on for something else, happen to pull codes, and bingo there's a knock sensor code stored from ages ago, although it won't set a light.

 

Here's part of the article I read once regarding the nissan QR25DE engine:

 

"There are a few characteristics of the QR25 that any Spec-V owner should be aware of. First, the knock sensor appears to be overly sensitive. Knock sensors are simply microphones listening for the distinct sound of detonation. Unfortunately, other normal engine noises sometimes get interpreted as knock, causing the engine to retard timing unnecessarily.

 

It's this knock sensor activity that led us to comment in an earlier review that the Spec-V was one of the least consistent cars we had ever dyno tested. Simply unplugging the knock sensor will scare the ECU into retarding timing across the board. Instead, we unbolted it from the engine, wrapped it in a towel, and zip-tied it to a power steering hose behind the engine. It's still plugged in, and we had to run a ground wire from the sensor to the engine blcok, but the towel prevents it from hearing anything that might be considered knock. The clean alternative is to unplug it, put a 500,000 Ohm resistor across the terminals, and then run a ground wire from the left pin (looking into the connector with the tab on top) to the engine block. This is now one of the most consistent engines we've ever tested."

 

 

It might mean nothing, but maybe it's something worth trying before spending money (free tests are the best tests).