Stuck lifter?

[RobertISaar]

My L27 has a GODLY amount of torque. Better recognize.

 

if that truly is the case, then your tranny is either going soon or you have the miracle trans as well...

[xtremerevolution]

If my trans goes, 5 SPEED SWAP!!!!

[RobertISaar]

hmm..... i wonder if the 94-95 3800s had any manual trans settings in them? i know the 94-95 LQ1 does, even though no factory car used it.

[xtremerevolution]

Both the engine torque mount and the rear mount are cracked.

 

That will make 3 front engine mounts, 2 rear engine mounts, and 5 engine torque mounts this year.

[RobertISaar]

...

 

and it just happened to occur at the same time that you swapped the heads?

[alec_b]

It doesn't surprise me that your mounts were the cause of the vibration. I know (as do you) that my front mount is toast, and I get the most vibration while stopped in drive, slightly less in park, and none in reverse. I really need to get under there and take care of those... oh wait I'm broke. Congrats on finding the problem though!

[xtremerevolution]

...

 

and it just happened to occur at the same time that you swapped the heads?

 

Like I said, GODLY amount of torque. Even Kristina, who never notices when I make a mod on the car, noticed the acceleration. She was like "wow, this is almost like the Bonneville." Her head jerked back pretty hard when I stepped on it. But you wouldn't know, you don't like 3800's.

 

That's just my luck, you know. I already replaced the engine torque mount. The rear mount is on order from Indiana, set to arrive tomorrow.

 

I have a guy who can sell me brand new lifters for cheaper on the bonneville forum. I'll seafoam the car to see if the noise is an exhaust leak, and if it isn't, I'll pick up those lifters.

[RobertISaar]

not liking an engine doesn't mean i won't recognize it's strengths... and quite obviously, you're getting this L27 stuff to look more appealing than it was(but that's not necessarily saying much).

 

you need poly mounts... BAD. maybe then they'll last a year without breaking.

[xtremerevolution]

not liking an engine doesn't mean i won't recognize it's strengths... and quite obviously, you're getting this L27 stuff to look more appealing than it was(but that's not necessarily saying much).

 

you need poly mounts... BAD. maybe then they'll last a year without breaking.

 

haha.

 

I put in 8.5 gallons of premium fuel today. Seemed to feel better throughout the day than before. A bit more smooth, and a bit of a more even power band. I took another log file though, and the KR is still there, and the knock is still registering. Not sure if there's a difference, but it feels better than before.

 

I'm going to seafoam the car to see if I have an exhaust leak, fix that, get the engine mount changed, and if its still making any remote noise, I'm replacing the lifters. I have a feeling after the mount is fixed, that knock sensor won't be registering as much as it did before. Engine sounds freakin great though at WOT. It just sounds alive. Sounds like it wants to be abused.

[RobertISaar]

if anything movees around enough to make contact ANYWHERE, that can register as knock... just saying, since you seems to kill mounts faster than i do oil changes.

[xtremerevolution]

So I'm getting KR because my engine mount is broken, thereby reducing my performance and confusing the hell out of me.

 

Wonderful...

[Captain Ficho]

if anything movees around enough to make contact ANYWHERE, that can register as knock... just saying, since you seems to kill mounts faster than i do oil changes.

 

This is true, when the knock isn't internal it is known as "false knock"... but the knock sensor will still register it. I had false knock conditions in my Grand National because the downpipe was touching the frame when I accelerated hard, solved by a poly motor mount on that side.

[xtremerevolution]

Well then, at least I have a seller willing to sell me brand new quality lifters for $90 shipped, and there's a big possibility I have an exhaust leak causing my ticking noise.

 

How do I fix an exhaust leak? Just having an exhaust shop weld over the spot where its leaking?

[RobertISaar]

if it's fairly clean, then yes, it's fairly quick to hit it up with a MIG and try and seal it, depending on exactly where it is. if it's rusted to fuck, like any other exhaust component ever, the area NEEDS to be cleaned before welding.

[xtremerevolution]

No rust there at all actually (California car), but I will run it over with a wire brush just in case.

[alec_b]

Yea run it over with a wire brush, but FYI just welding over the crack may not stop it from cracking more. I think the best way to stop the crack is to first drill a small hole at each end of the crack THEN weld over it. That way the crack won't expand any more than those two points.

 

Otherwise try and find a good set of used manifolds, although there's a good chance of those being cracked as well. I believe I read a long time ago on the Bonneville forums that the SI manifolds were prone to cracking for some reason, I'm can't remember why though.

[RobertISaar]

good excuse for some proper headers... and i know just the guy!

[xtremerevolution]

Robert, while I love this engine, if I'm going to put headers in this car, it will be on an L67.

 

I changed both mounts. The car vibrates much less at idle now, but you can still feel some roughness while accelerating, particularly at around 3200 rpm, and you can still feel some vibration at idle. Its a LOT better than it was before though. I think the rest of it is in the tune. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

At this point I'd be content with a tune knowing the engine will go to 300k. With a solid bottom end and 85k mile heads, I think it should be easy to get there. It is after all my daily driver.

 

Now if you want to talk custom headers, we can talk about the Jaguar.

Edited April 28, 2010 by xtremerevolution

[xtremerevolution]

So guess what I found today!!!!!

 

Yeah, a larger pin-sized radiator leak squirting a constant stream of coolant, right behind the driver's side hose on the other side of the radiator. I wondered why I kept filling up coolant, why the car ran so great when it was cold, and why it started running rougher when it got warmer. There's no pressure in the cooling system!

 

Ordered a new one off ebay for $84 shipped.

 

STOP BREAKING!!!!

[Night Fury]

Why would low coolant pressure cause rough running?

[xtremerevolution]

Why would low coolant pressure cause rough running?

 

My guess is the air bubbles in the system. Low coolant pressure means there's a leak somewhere, so there are constantly air bubbles in the system and some parts of the engine may be hotter than others. I can tell a difference in how the car runs between 180 degrees and 210 degrees.

[Night Fury]

My guess is the air bubbles in the system. Low coolant pressure means there's a leak somewhere, so there are constantly air bubbles in the system and some parts of the engine may be hotter than others. I can tell a difference in how the car runs between 180 degrees and 210 degrees.

 

Well I can too, just didn't think about air in the system and such.

[IRONDOG442]

Did you replace the pushrods when you put the heads back on? Sounds crazy but a car with that many miles on it they say the pushrods actually get smaller after lots of wear. A shorter pushrod will create a very small gap which will equate to a ticking sound after the motor is put together, also what kind of head gaskets did you use? Did you use fel Pro permatorque or something else, some cheaper gaskets will require retorking of the head bolts after x amount of miles. Did you buy new headbolts? they also say they will stretch over time and will also give you a gap between the pushrod and the lifter other times they may not hold the torque required. Did you use an degree/angle torque wrench and torque the head spots according to spec. I think the 3800 torque specs are 37 ft/lbs + 130 degrees + 30 degrees.

[xtremerevolution]

Did you replace the pushrods when you put the heads back on? Sounds crazy but a car with that many miles on it they say the pushrods actually get smaller after lots of wear. A shorter pushrod will create a very small gap which will equate to a ticking sound after the motor is put together, also what kind of head gaskets did you use? Did you use fel Pro permatorque or something else, some cheaper gaskets will require retorking of the head bolts after x amount of miles. Did you buy new headbolts? they also say they will stretch over time and will also give you a gap between the pushrod and the lifter other times they may not hold the torque required. Did you use an degree/angle torque wrench and torque the head spots according to spec. I think the 3800 torque specs are 37 ft/lbs + 130 degrees + 30 degrees.

 

I did not replace the pushrods. That is a very good point. I did check all of them on the bank closer to the front for abnormal wear and didn't notice any, but it certainly wouldn't be difficult to replace them all. Wouldn't the lifters compensate for that gap though? I thought that was the whole point of hydraulic lifters. Plus I have 1.8 ratio roller rockers. What do you think?

 

I used whatever the FelPro gaskets are. I didn't cheap out on those. I know FelPro makes good gaskets, so I used those on the entire car. I did replace the bolts as well with FelPro bolts from rockauto. I didn't have a degree torque wrench, so I torqued them down to 70 ft/lb. I had read that on the 3800's, the extra degrees come out to around 65-70 and that's what most people are going for, so I did the same. I followed the correct order of tightening as well. I started with 25, then 50, then 70 in the proper torque order, which means I went through the entire sequence 3 times. So far so good considering my compression is excellent at between 186 and 190 on all cylinders, 3 of which are dead on 190. Do you think I should have anything to be worried about as far as the bolts and gaskets go?

 

Thanks for the help.

[IRONDOG442]

I did not replace the pushrods. That is a very good point. I did check all of them on the bank closer to the front for abnormal wear and didn't notice any, but it certainly wouldn't be difficult to replace them all. Wouldn't the lifters compensate for that gap though? I thought that was the whole point of hydraulic lifters. Plus I have 1.8 ratio roller rockers. What do you think?

 

I used whatever the FelPro gaskets are. I didn't cheap out on those. I know FelPro makes good gaskets, so I used those on the entire car. I did replace the bolts as well with FelPro bolts from rockauto. I didn't have a degree torque wrench, so I torqued them down to 70 ft/lb. I had read that on the 3800's, the extra degrees come out to around 65-70 and that's what most people are going for, so I did the same. I followed the correct order of tightening as well. I started with 25, then 50, then 70 in the proper torque order, which means I went through the entire sequence 3 times. So far so good considering my compression is excellent at between 186 and 190 on all cylinders, 3 of which are dead on 190. Do you think I should have anything to be worried about as far as the bolts and gaskets go?

 

Thanks for the help.

 

No the gaskets and the fact you bought new bolts are helping you, I would take one of the valve covers off and see if the bolts are still at 70 ft/lbs also when the covers are off see if you can freely spin any of the pushrods, they are not supposed to move. I know pushrods are expensive when you buy a whole the last 3400 I did I did not replace pushrods and this caused them to tick, i ran resolone through the engine it did not quiet it down then I bought new pushrods and the sound went away.